Alternatives to 35mm film recorders?

jsmoove · Sep 5, 2021

I'm curious to know if there are other machines that function like a 35mm film recorder of yore, where a digital image is exposed on a 35mm frame in high resolution (over 4k) with a direct connection to a laptop. So either CRT or LCD, unless there are other ways I'm not aware of.

So far, the options include:
-computer output microfilm machine ($$)
-digital enlarger with some sort of reduction lens ($$)
-maskless photolithography with a projector ($$)
-polaroid spd 360, which has some sort of CCD sensor to expose on pack film, but this isn't 35mm.
-taking a picture of a 4k monitor, which is not a digital connection.

tomkatf · Sep 5, 2021

You might try here... a recent thread.
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/who-is-using-a-flash-for-copying-negatives-with-a-dslr.186261/

jsmoove · Sep 5, 2021

@tomkatf Ah yes, but I'm looking not to copy slides/35mm....but instead write a digital image to the film or paper. Unless I've misunderstood the link.

MattKing · Sep 5, 2021

jsmoove said:
35mm film recorder of yore, where a digital image is exposed on a 35mm frame in high resolution (over 4k) with a direct connection to a laptop.

The film recorder that my friends own doesn't use a laptop. It uses a relatively ancient Macintosh tower computer (IIRC) and exposes on to a 6x8 frame on 120 film (using a motorized RB67 film back).

jsmoove · Sep 5, 2021

@MattKing
I believe there are modern ways to connect to the old film recorders using software and scsi's...:
https://www.philpem.me.uk/code/filmrec/start?s[]=polaroid
I can run a mac OS9 version of Palette Export with
http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/macos9win.html
https://imgur.com/a/szzOYrB

I was thinking of getting a HR-6000 since they are not bad price-wise, but then I read elsewhere that the CRT is the same CRT as the old analog versions of the Palette, so you aren't actually getting 4k worth of resolution. The software on other film recorders is difficult to find, or very expensive.
Anyways, I'm just curious to know if there are alternatives to a film recorder itself, in how it actually functions?
(I also have no idea where to even begin to find a film recorder in Canada, since they are mostly in the US on ebay, shipping is atrocious since they are so heavy)
+ To get in before anyone suggests, I'm not after a service, would like to own one

Mr Bill · Sep 5, 2021

jsmoove said:
I'm curious to know if there are other machines that function like a 35mm film recorder of yore...

Back in the day, a Kodak LVT machine was the gold standard.

Today, I don't really have any recommendations. I think that if I had a digital image that I wanted to put to 35mm film, I'd seriously consider having a good-sized print made, then use a copy setup to shoot it back onto film.

btaylor · Sep 5, 2021

I knew a guy in Ecuador who made his own digital to film chain that seemed to work well for him. The movie theaters could not project digitally at the time so he had to make his own conversion to film. He photographed the highest res monitor he could get his hands on with an Arriflex he modified to single frame shooting frame by frame. Apparently it worked well.

jsmoove · Sep 5, 2021

@btaylor That sounds intriguing. I was wondering about just shooting a monitor, thats the non-crt/ccd option....and you wouldn't need software either. Do you know what type of monitor? I wonder what type of lens he had, and whether he built a dark enclosure between the monitor and the camera.
I actually recall a picture of some weird product from the 80s(?) where you put this camera funnel thing up to a monitor...or maybe it was a tv?

Found it!
https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/...it-npc_1_77936eac61bff08c513308ada4f2a632.jpg "screenshooter"

+ https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:0168_Acmel_CRT_Camera_(5106530629).jpg

ic-racer · Sep 5, 2021

I'm curious to know if there are other machines that function like a 35mm film recorder

I have been using my 27" computer screen and a Zeiss Makro-Planar lens. I use my enlarger alignment laser against a filter on the front of the camera's lens to align the rig.

jsmoove · Sep 5, 2021

@ic-racer Cool. What is your computer screens resolution? Do you have the setup in the open or darkened off?

Another question....what about mini watch TV's or CRT's? That are are in the 35mm physical size range?
Can you expose a negative with tiny a high resolution screen, if they exist higher than 4k?
-probably a dumb question, unlikely

btaylor · Sep 5, 2021

jsmoove said:
@btaylor That sounds intriguing. I was wondering about just shooting a monitor, thats the non-crt/ccd option....and you wouldn't need software either. Do you know what type of monitor? I wonder what type of lens he had, and whether he built a dark enclosure between the monitor and the camera.
I actually recall a picture of some weird product from the 80s(?) where you put this camera funnel thing up to a monitor...or maybe it was a tv?

Found it!
https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/...it-npc_1_77936eac61bff08c513308ada4f2a632.jpg "screenshooter"

+ https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:0168_Acmel_CRT_Camera_(5106530629).jpg

From nine years ago in an email from my cinema group:

i am finishing my MITCHELL full gate film transfer frame by frame machine , with a resolution of digital 1600x2540 pixels ....
tomorrow i run firsts tests , so betters digital to film transfer than before !
Vimeo link to camera operation

this fellow is a very talented cinematographer and director. He undoubtedly did all of his exposure and color balance tests before the final transfer of films and commercials he shot for presentation in theaters. I believe the camera original was sent to a lab in Brazil for release printing. I am sure he set the system up precisely parallel and in an enclosure with no stray light. Probably used a macro lens adapted to the Mitchell. He used a Russian Konvas with his own motor contraption initially.

AgX · Sep 5, 2021

jsmoove said:
@tomkatf Ah yes, but I'm looking not to copy slides/35mm....but instead write a digital image to the film or paper.

Yes, but I wonder what role that CCD-senor plays in your consideraton. Maybe instead you mean a transmissive LCD screen.

jsmoove · Sep 5, 2021

@AgX Whoops, yup! I had read up on that Polaroid SPD360 printer device and it said ccd, so I got myself confused. Will edit the top to LCD.
By the way, are tiny 35mm 4k screens a thing?

@btaylor
Thanks for sharing, very cool.
I think the 35mm-backed CRT camera/screenshooter device seems like a smart way to go after all (since im not talented), I just have to figure out what type of 4k monitor would line up with the thing.

jsmoove · Sep 6, 2021

What about electronic viewfinders?
Can you feed an image into an electronic viewfinder?
Range is apparently between 2.36mp to 4mp for the microdisplay. Don't know if that's good or not.

jsmoove · Sep 11, 2021

@ic-racer For your setup, do you have it darkened off between your camera and monitor? What type of screen is it, a mac?

ic-racer · Sep 11, 2021

jsmoove said:
@ic-racer For your setup, do you have it darkened off between your camera and monitor? What type of screen is it, a mac?

The computer is in the darkroom. 27" iMac.

Alternatives to 35mm film recorders?

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency