Alt. print dodging/burning/print-manipulating

scootermm · Sep 28, 2005

this could perhaps be under the ethics/philosophy forum... maybe not...
depends on how you see it...
Im curious who here does printing manipulations to their alternative prints (Van Dykes, pd/pt, salt prints, cyanotypes, albumens, dags, etc etc etc)
Ive wondered about it alot recently. Theres a part of me that follows the methodology of straight printing when it comes to alt printing (which is about all I do recently) and then theres those few negatives that I think... "oh some burning in of the sky here, or some burning in of the corners here, or some dodging of a detail here" might help the overall image.
I have done only a little of it in the past but am finding that sometimes it might help.
So how many others do dodging/burning/etc of their alternative prints?

Jeremy · Sep 28, 2005

Matt, I have done some general burning with my 5x7 negatives when I felt it was necessary. It is much trickier burning in my light box than it is doing it with a traditional enlarger set-up. If you find you are doing LOTS of dodging and burning can I suggest contrast masking or maybe looking for a Nu-Arc?

scootermm · Sep 28, 2005

yeah Ive done a fair amount of it jeremy... I have enough space in my UV box to make it workable. was more wondering what others opinions were on it.

would the nuarc give shorter times you thinking?

sanking · Sep 28, 2005

scootermm said:
this could perhaps be under the ethics/philosophy forum... maybe not...
depends on how you see it...
Im curious who here does printing manipulations to their alternative prints (Van Dykes, pd/pt, salt prints, cyanotypes, albumens, dags, etc etc etc)
Ive wondered about it alot recently. Theres a part of me that follows the methodology of straight printing when it comes to alt printing (which is about all I do recently) and then theres those few negatives that I think... "oh some burning in of the sky here, or some burning in of the corners here, or some dodging of a detail here" might help the overall image.
I have done only a little of it in the past but am finding that sometimes it might help.
So how many others do dodging/burning/etc of their alternative prints?

I dodge and burn quite a bit when printing. One way that works well for me is to cut out a mask from a piece of fairly heavy paper and put supports under it to keep it about 1-2" from the surface of the sensitized paper (on top of the glass of course). If you move this around several times during exposure this will diffuse the light so that you won't see any uneven exposure marks. The key is to move the mask several times during exposure.

Sandy

scootermm · Sep 28, 2005

good idea sandy. raising the mask is a smart idea. the dodging Ive done was by using a scrap piece of matboard and moving it around slightly during the longer exposures.

raising I imagine, in and of itself, would even help to diffuse the light as well.

scootermm · Sep 28, 2005

another question... I remember reading somewhere... at the moment cant remember where, or in reference to who, it was but it was in reference to someone historically (photographically of course) and how they felt it was "wrong" or against some unspoken/unwritten rule somewhere to dodge and burn contact prints... especially the likes of a pd/pt print. what are peoples thoughts on this?

clay · Sep 28, 2005

It's not wrong if you don't get caught.

scootermm said:
another question... I remember reading somewhere... at the moment cant remember where, or in reference to who, it was but it was in reference to someone historically (photographically of course) and how they felt it was "wrong" or against some unspoken/unwritten rule somewhere to dodge and burn contact prints... especially the likes of a pd/pt print. what are peoples thoughts on this?

scootermm · Sep 28, 2005

touche, my friend, Mr. Clay.

touche indeed.

Kerik · Sep 28, 2005

scootermm said:
another question... I remember reading somewhere... at the moment cant remember where, or in reference to who, it was but it was in reference to someone historically (photographically of course) and how they felt it was "wrong" or against some unspoken/unwritten rule somewhere to dodge and burn contact prints... especially the likes of a pd/pt print. what are peoples thoughts on this?

Booooooooooooooogusssssss!!! Hooey!! Load of crap!

Need I say more??

Kerik

scootermm · Sep 28, 2005

Kerik said:
Booooooooooooooogusssssss!!! Hooey!! Load of crap!

Need I say more??

Kerik

hahaha
yeah it seemed pretty damn bogus to me as well.

photomc · Sep 28, 2005

You mean to tell me you guys don't make perfect negatives every time for alt. process printing? Gasp!!!!! I don't know what to think now....you mean.........you really mean I can dodge and burn under them UV lights? (not kidding there, had never really thought about dodge and burn with UV, at least with the light box I use - home built 12 blb bulbs) Now to find time and go back to some negatives and give it a try...cool

Jorge · Sep 28, 2005

photomc said:
You mean to tell me you guys don't make perfect negatives every time for alt. process printing?

I do!!! ..... ROFLMAO...... since I dye dodge instead of sitting there I dont call my technique dodging, I call it the poor man's photoshop....

Jeremy · Sep 28, 2005

Jorge said:
dye dodge

Dye dodging? What is this, pray tell? Also, how did the albumen test turn out?

scootermm · Sep 28, 2005

I agree.... dye dodging... do tell indeed...

clay · Sep 28, 2005

Mix up some crocein scarlet and dilute it with water. It is a red, removable dye that can be painted on areas of the negative you want to lighten. There was an article in photo techniques a few years ago by David Kachel on this technique. I have used it occasionally, but I use the crocein scarlet more often to spot out tiny holes or scratches that would print black. It is handy stuff. One small bottle should last approximately 7 lifetimes.

Jorge · Sep 28, 2005

Clay has it but I use it a little bit differently, I found a set of color print retouching colors for color prints, I swab a q tip on it and paint the back of the negative. If I mess up I put the negative in water and it goes away...I usually use green, red or orange, depending on how much "dodging" I want to do...

Jeremy · Sep 28, 2005

clay said:
I use the crocein scarlet more often to spot out tiny holes or scratches that would print black

Perfect! I've just been flicking the black spots with an exacto knife and then rebuilding to the correct density while spotting but this would be a LOT less work. Where can I get this magical elixir?

Allen Friday · Sep 29, 2005

B&H carries crocein scarlet. $22.50 for 1 oz. Just pull up the B&H main page and type in scarlet in the search box. It is listed as "in stock".

Jorge · Sep 29, 2005

Jeremy Moore said:
Dye dodging? What is this, pray tell? Also, how did the albumen test turn out?

The albumen test was not good, I needed to work with it and in the end I think the improvement was not going to be worth the hassle. There is nothing like having a correctly expose negative and print to give a pt/pd brilliance and depth. So I am sticking with what I have been doing....

colrehogan · Sep 29, 2005

photomc said:
You mean to tell me you guys don't make perfect negatives every time for alt. process printing? Gasp!!!!! I don't know what to think now....you mean.........you really mean I can dodge and burn under them UV lights? (not kidding there, had never really thought about dodge and burn with UV, at least with the light box I use - home built 12 blb bulbs) Now to find time and go back to some negatives and give it a try...cool

I have never dodged/burned for alt process. I hope to learn how/see it done in Kerik's workshop. Otherwise, I rely on the decent negative approach.

Alt. print dodging/burning/print-manipulating

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