All you D76 1:1 users- do you use a larger tank or do you increase time?

GarageBoy · Sep 19, 2014

So I only have a 2 reel Paterson tank at the moment and I've been doing Tri X / D 76 1:1 at the Kodak indicated time with Kodak indicated inversion methods

However, developing 1 roll at a time feels like a waste of time

Should I do 2 and increase the time 10% as per the spec sheet for D76? (~10:45) Or is it better to do it at the "proper time" (9:45 min)?

Arvee · Sep 19, 2014

Kodak recommends 250ml D76 stock per roll for full development. So, two rolls require 500ml stock D76 plus 500ml of water (1+1) and you will need a 1L tank. Or, continue doing 1 roll in the 2 rolll tank. Easy peasy! Steve Anchell recommends even more stock d76 for full development; 350ml, I believe.

Or, do two rolls in your 500ml tank in stock D76.

The 10% rule only applies to doing an additional roll in the same stock unreplenished D76.

Bruce Osgood · Sep 19, 2014

As far as I know, only the volume changes with the number of reels. If 1 reel develops in 12 minutes with 250 mLdeveloper then 2 reels would develop 12 minutes with 500 mL.

RalphLambrecht · Sep 19, 2014

I switched to rotary processing yearsago;beautiful negs and consistency at 150ml+150ml of water per roll.

cliveh · Sep 19, 2014

As Bruce says only the volume changes with multiple reels, not time. But first off, what size film are you processing?

baachitraka · Sep 19, 2014

300ml+300ml for 120(1 roll) or 135(2 rolls) in Patterson tank.

NB23 · Sep 19, 2014

Double the quantity for 36exp rolls but flush quantity for 120 since the total square surface for 120 film is about half of 135 36 exp film

summicron1 · Sep 19, 2014

GarageBoy said:
So I only have a 2 reel Paterson tank at the moment and I've been doing Tri X / D 76 1:1 at the Kodak indicated time with Kodak indicated inversion methods

However, developing 1 roll at a time feels like a waste of time

Should I do 2 and increase the time 10% as per the spec sheet for D76? (~10:45) Or is it better to do it at the "proper time" (9:45 min)?

I have a tank that takes 4 35mm reels and use it that way all the time at 9:45, they always come out just fine. Never added 10 percent, not sure why you would. The amount of developer-to-film area remains the same. Remember, using it 1:1 is a one-shot deal, you don't reuse the developer.

Sal Santamaura · Sep 19, 2014

NB23 said:
...the total square surface for 120 film is about half of 135 36 exp film

Incorrect. They're both 80 square inches.

Xmas · Sep 19, 2014

summicron1 said:
I have a tank that takes 4 35mm reels and use it that way all the time at 9:45, they always come out just fine. Never added 10 percent, not sure why you would. The amount of developer-to-film area remains the same. Remember, using it 1:1 is a one-shot deal, you don't reuse the developer.

confirmed...
you only need to know how much your reels take to be fully submerged - 290 mls per reel for mine.

And if you invert make sure the reels don't move in tank.

For 1+1 you discard you don't add 10% that would only apply for stock reuse.

If you do two in one tank with stock you add 20% to 3rd and 4th...

This assumes 35mm...

cliveh · Sep 19, 2014

I only develop one film in a single tank at one time and this is probably due to the fact I don't shoot a lot of film and also feel that the more films you develop in one go, the less control you have over the process (probably not true). Also, I always make 300ml of diluted stock solution for each 35mm film, as it is easier to measure out 150ml and remember that quantity rather than half of 290ml.

Bill Burk · Sep 19, 2014

We all agree that 250ml stock solution per roll of 35mm film is recommended, and that relates to the time/temperature/tank/agitation etc. for the recommended starting point.

GarageBoy · Sep 19, 2014

This is what I'm trying to bring up

from the October 2002 J78 Data Sheet for D76

"If you use D-76 Developer diluted 1:1, dilute it just before you use it, and discard it after processing the batch of film.
Before using the diluted developer, make certain that there
are no air bubbles in the solution. If air is coming out of the
solution and forming bubbles, let the solution stand until the
bubbles dissipate. Dont reuse or replenish the diluted
solution. You can develop one 135-3 roll (80 square inches)
in 473 mL (16 ounces) or two rolls together in 946 mL
(one quart) of diluted developer. If you process one
135-36 roll in a 237 mL (8-ounce) tank or two 135-36 rolls
in a 473 mL (16-ounce) tank, increase the development time
by 10 percent (see the following tables)."

I hate how Paterson tanks only come in 2 roll, 3 roll, or 5 roll sizes... (35mm)

pbromaghin · Sep 19, 2014

Glad this conversation came up. I just bought d-76 for the first time this week and the highlighted passage in the data sheet confused me too.

NB23 · Sep 19, 2014

Sal Santamaura said:
Incorrect. They're both 80 square inches.

I was expecting that

Actually i didnt finish my thought... So here it is: i was sure the 36 exp was somewhere around 20-25% extra but didn't think it was the same as 120 rolls.
That, combined to the fact that my 120 tank requires 400ml of developer (vs 250 for my 135 films) was enough to warrant the use of D76 1:1 and fall within kodak's specs. Still, 200ml of d76 + 200ml of water for a single roll of 120 is pretty close to kodak's recomendations.

For 135 films i definitely double the amount.

Voilaaa

Bill Burk · Sep 19, 2014

I break the rule all the time.

I develop 2 rolls of 35mm film in a 16 ounce tank with 8 ounces of stock plus 8 ounces of water (and 4 rolls of 35mm film in a 32 ounce tank). I use half the recommended amount of stock solution.

My developing times are longer than the manufacturer's recommended times.

Before this, I didn't see the reason why. It's so obvious now why my developing times are all longer than the published charts.

I determine my developing times by measuring the contrast, so I don't care what any charts say... I develop as long as it takes to reach the contrast goal.

So I definitely recommend following the advice to develop longer.

By the way, Paterson reels have a tendency to creep up the spindle. I personally would fill that tank to the brim. I've had too many rolls with tops partly developed and there is no amount of dodging that can solve that issue - you ruin a whole roll if the film doesn't get covered with developer.

cliveh · Sep 19, 2014

Bill Burk said:
We all agree that 250ml stock solution per roll of 35mm film is recommended, and that relates to the time/temperature/tank/agitation etc. for the recommended starting point.

Bill, I think you mean 120 film, as 250ml stock mixed 1;1 would give 500ml of working solution. The OP is using a Paterson and they state on the base of the tank 290ml for a 35mm film.

Hatchetman · Sep 19, 2014

Bill Burk said:
By the way, Paterson reels have a tendency to creep up the spindle. I personally would fill that tank to the brim. I've had too many rolls with tops partly developed and there is no amount of dodging that can solve that issue - you ruin a whole roll if the film doesn't get covered with developer.

I used to do that at first but had problems - turned out I wasn't getting proper agitation without any air in the tank!

So make sure you load both reels. The one with film at the bottom. Make sure you cover the film reel with developer, but not so much you lose the ability to agitate.

Bill Burk · Sep 19, 2014

cliveh said:
Bill, I think you mean 120 film, as 250ml stock mixed 1;1 would give 500ml of working solution. The OP is using a Paterson and they state on the base of the tank 290ml for a 35mm film.

290ml is the liquid volume to physically cover the film. The amount of stock solution per roll is how much developer is needed for the work that needs to be done (think how much Metol and Hydroquinone that film is expected to use up).

Bill Burk · Sep 19, 2014

Hatchetman said:
I used to do that at first but had problems - turned out I wasn't getting proper agitation without any air in the tank!

So make sure you load both reels. The one with film at the bottom. Make sure you cover the film reel with developer, but not so much you lose the ability to agitate.

That's an interesting observation, I'll take your word for it. I switched to steel. My advice is based on what I swore I would always do - if I ever used a Paterson tank again.

baachitraka · Sep 19, 2014

135 and 120 film fit on 8x10 inch paper to make contact sheets.

GarageBoy · Sep 19, 2014

Bill Burk said:
I break the rule all the time.

I develop 2 rolls of 35mm film in a 16 ounce tank with 8 ounces of stock plus 8 ounces of water (and 4 rolls of 35mm film in a 32 ounce tank). I use half the recommended amount of stock solution.

My developing times are longer than the manufacturer's recommended times.

Before this, I didn't see the reason why. It's so obvious now why my developing times are all longer than the published charts.

I determine my developing times by measuring the contrast, so I don't care what any charts say... I develop as long as it takes to reach the contrast goal.

So I definitely recommend following the advice to develop longer.

By the way, Paterson reels have a tendency to creep up the spindle. I personally would fill that tank to the brim. I've had too many rolls with tops partly developed and there is no amount of dodging that can solve that issue - you ruin a whole roll if the film doesn't get covered with developer.

So you're doing what Kodak says to do and it's working well?

Thanks

Bill Burk · Sep 19, 2014

Yes. Especially the part where they say to use these figures as a starting point and take it from there.

I find my prints from negatives developed in D-76 1:1 with the wrong dilution are as good as I could ever desire.

(p.s. I work for Kodak, but this opinion is my own not necessarily that of EKC)

Bill Burk · Sep 19, 2014

You're right that I do break the rule regarding 250 ml stock per roll of 135-36.

But I understood GarageBoy to be asking about this phrase (If you process one 135-36 roll in a 237 mL (8-ounce) tank...) and that's where I do what Kodak says - I develop for a longer time.

Xmas · Sep 19, 2014

Bill Burk said:
By the way, Paterson reels have a tendency to creep up the spindle. I personally would fill that tank to the brim. I've had too many rolls with tops partly developed and there is no amount of dodging that can solve that issue - you ruin a whole roll if the film doesn't get covered with developer.

HiBill

Some reels will do and Patterson provide a spring circlip to secure them when new in box.

If you don't have a clip you need to fill the tank with reels or not invert.

Noel

All you D76 1:1 users- do you use a larger tank or do you increase time?

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