Alklai-STOP problems

m_liddell · Dec 28, 2004

I've recently switched developer from perceptol to Exactol Lux. The developer requires an alkali stop.

I've been using Alklai-STOP from monochromephotography.com and I'm getting purple negs wheather I use alkali fix or acid. Even after washing for 1.5hrs there is still a slight purple tint, I thought using alkaline chems shortened the wash time! I've tried presoaking and without. Same problem with both 120 and 35mm with FP4+.

The documentation with the stop says 1L should be good for 60 films. I mixed 500ml and it lasted just 4 films.

This is the only alkaline stop I can find in the UK. Are there alternatives? Anyone use it successfully?

fschifano · Dec 28, 2004

I think plain water will do.

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 28, 2004

Have you tried a hypo clearing agent or Permawash after the fix?

gainer · Dec 28, 2004

I haven't had any recent problems with purple TMY or TMX since I used TF4 on them. I generally add the fixer concentrate to the developer at end of development, about 1 oz. per 8 ounces. If necessary, I pour out enough developer to accommodate the fixer. IOW, I skip the stop bath.

I expect to get alot of theories about what will happen. None of those things have happened yet.

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 28, 2004

I've tried that since you first posted it, and it worked fine! I was probably using PMK or ABC pyro, and the fixer concentrate was Zonal Pro rapid fixer.

garryl · Dec 28, 2004

m_liddell said:
The documentation with the stop says 1L should be good for 60 films. I mixed 500ml and it lasted just 4 films.

how did you determine this?

This is the only "commerically produced" product I know of. There are several
formulas for mix-your-own .

I assume that this wasn't a problem when you were using Perceptol?
Was your pre-soak plain water? Was your fixing 1 or 2 bath. Has this purple happened with any other films?

garryl · Dec 28, 2004

gainer said:
I haven't had any recent problems with purple TMY or TMX since I used TF4 on them. I generally add the fixer concentrate to the developer at end of development, about 1 oz. per 8 ounces. If necessary, I pour out enough developer to accommodate the fixer. IOW, I skip the stop bath.

I expect to get alot of theories about what will happen. None of those things have happened yet.

This was the technique that Edwal used for using FG-7 as a mono-bath.

gainer · Dec 29, 2004

Now you have found me out. I used that technique with FG-7 many years ago.

m_liddell · Dec 29, 2004

garryl said:
how did you determine this?

This is the only "commerically produced" product I know of. There are several
formulas for mix-your-own .

I assume that this wasn't a problem when you were using Perceptol?
Was your pre-soak plain water? Was your fixing 1 or 2 bath. Has this purple happened with any other films?

Presoak was in distilled water since the water in my area is terrible. I determined that it was exhausted when I developed a film that came out almost blank, then did a film immediatly after from teh same shoot with newly mixed stop which was fine (apart from the purple). I've tried fixing (1 bath) with agfa agefix and also 'Retro Original Alkaline Fixer' from retro photographic using various times. Haven't tried a film other than hp5+ or fp4+ with it.

Had no problems with perceptol but I was using acid stop and fix.

garryl · Dec 29, 2004

m_liddell said:
I determined that it was exhausted when I developed a film that came out almost blank, then did a film immediatly after from teh same shoot with newly mixed stop which was fine (apart from the purple).

I'm a little confused. How could "exhausted stop" cause a film to come out "blank". Or were you referring to the developer.

Since you've tried different fixers at differing fix times,I won't suggest 2 bath
technique( which is my personal favorite). I'd try the suggested alkaline after-bath or washing aid as a next investigation step.

Some threads have suggested that the "purple effect" might have to do with the Ph of the developer. Low Ph developers remove dye less efficiently than Higher Ph developers( ID-11 vs Rodinal).

etriplett · Dec 29, 2004

File under embarassing...

garryl said:
I'm a little confused. How could "exhausted stop" cause a film to come out "blank". Or were you referring to the developer.

The only time I had film come out blank with proper exposure was when I "developed" it in the fixer before fixing...those darn Ilford bottles all look the same.

tomishakishi2 · Dec 29, 2004

I've used Exactol Lux a fair bit and some thoughts:

You do not really need to use an alkali stop, water is fine (as is an acid stop). I rinsed with several changes of water if an alkali fix was used after acid stop. In the end, I found that using water stop then acid fix was fine and I stopped using the 'dev back in after fix' as it made little difference to how the image printed. Some have suggested that this simply increases general stain rather than image stain, which just hoiks up printing time. Now with pyrocat HD (essentially the same and so cheap it is effectively free), I just presoak, develop, acid stop, acid fix, wash, hey presto great negs with pretty well no B+F with clear based films (Tmax/Acros etc)!

With Ilford films (FP4 and delta100) I have had really erratic base clearance. I have had some negs clear very well very quickly and others that are pigs and never go clear. I think this may be a film issue, rather than the dev. On this subject, I may have had long clearance times with Tmax and Acros, but it has always cleared perfectly.

If you want fine grain and superb sharpness for a T grain film, try Acros. Incredible in Exactol Lux. Even Dixactol Ultra struggles to produce grain, but somehow produces really good edge effects for such a smoothie (even on 5x4 acros the difference between these devs and HC110 in terms of sharpness is very clear)

Good luck!

Tom

Blighty · Dec 29, 2004

Exactol Lux is brilliant. Personally, I never bothered with the alkaline stop. I used a very weak normal (acid) stop and then fixed in Hypam. A 3 minute resoak in the used developer imparts a beautiful stain. Usually a 30 minute wash sufficed. BLIGHTY

sergio caetano · Dec 29, 2004

Supposing this purple tint is an anti halo layer, 2 min in a hypo clear will eliminate it.

m_liddell · Dec 30, 2004

garryl said:
I'm a little confused. How could "exhausted stop" cause a film to come out "blank". Or were you referring to the developer.

Since you've tried different fixers at differing fix times,I won't suggest 2 bath
technique( which is my personal favorite). I'd try the suggested alkaline after-bath or washing aid as a next investigation step.

Some threads have suggested that the "purple effect" might have to do with the Ph of the developer. Low Ph developers remove dye less efficiently than Higher Ph developers( ID-11 vs Rodinal).

The film come out almost clear since the stop didn't stop the developer.

I'm going to resort to water as stop next as some have suggested. Thanks for the advice guys!

Ole · Dec 30, 2004

m_liddell said:
The film come out almost clear since the stop didn't stop the developer.

No. That would at most give a very slight increase in contrast. There is no way the film would come out clear.

dancqu · Dec 30, 2004

But it's not a "stop" it's a "go". I suspect he is working
with one of B. Thorton's TWO-BATH or A-B developers
and the "go" bath "stoped". Where the word stop
came from is anybodies' guess. Dan

garryl · Dec 31, 2004

as I posted on another list, the ultimate question__

Why an alkaline stop bath? Sinc most developers use alkalies as accelerator, isn't this the photo equivalent of throwing gasoline on a dying fire?

dancqu · Dec 31, 2004

It's not a stop it's a go. Read my post. Dan

Maine-iac · Jan 1, 2005

fschifano said:
I think plain water will do.

It'll do quite nicely. I never use a stop bath with film. If you don't want to follow Pat's method of adding the fixer to the developer (I don't), just give your film a quick (30 sec. or so) rinse in plain water before adding the fixer.

What I have found helpful is to follow the fix with a minute in a washing aid such as Perma Wash before final washing. This seems to help in getting the remaining purple color out.

From time to time, however, some of the purple remains, and no amount of washing or whatever removes it. I've concluded that this represents a difference in different batches of film at the manufacturing stage. I've also discovered that a bit of residual color makes no difference at all in printing.

Larry

Ole · Jan 1, 2005

dancqu said:
It's not a stop it's a go. Read my post. Dan

I think you're right, and we've been answering the wrong question all along.

What was called "stop" is properly the second half of a two-bath developer! Now that changes everything...

dancqu · Jan 2, 2005

m_liddell said:
I've recently switched developer from
perceptol to Exactol Lux. The developer requires an alkali
stop. This is the only alkaline stop I can find in the UK. Are
there alternatives? Anyone use it successfully?

Where did that come from; alkali stop. Is Exactol one of
B. Thorton's two-bath developers?

Alternatives; bicarbonate of soda, sodium carbonate,
borax. A heaping teaspoon of any of the above by itself,
or a combination, in 1/2 liter of water should do. Experiment
some. Sulfite, preservative, may not go with that developer. Dan

Alklai-STOP problems

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