Alkaline Fixers

thefizz · Jul 7, 2011

I haven't had a chance to return to this thread until now so thanks for all the replies.

I have since discovered the following alkaline stopbath: http://www.monochromephotography.com/section255920_83808.html which I presume would obviously be better than a water stop if using alkaline fixers?

Peter

Ian Grant · Jul 7, 2011

A normal stop bath would be far better, you can use a stop bath at a higher dilution that usually recommended as long as you check the pH if re-using a few times.

Ian

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 7, 2011

From what I understand, both TF-4 and TF-5 is buffered to withstand the acidity of a normal stop bath, so that the fixer becomes saturated with silver before its pH changes from exposure to the stop bath.
If you're worried about it, use an acid stop bath, rinse quickly in water, and then fix.
I know many prefer to use a water stop bath, but I prefer an acid stop to avoid problems at the fixing stage with any residual developer.

For what it's worth, I use an almost neutral pH fixer - Ilford Hypam, and it behaves very well for all my needs. No problems washing it out at all.

- Thomas

Ian Grant · Jul 7, 2011

Thomas Bertilsson said:
For what it's worth, I use an almost neutral pH fixer - Ilford Hypam, and it behaves very well for all my needs. No problems washing it out at all.

- Thomas

At last some reality Hypam and Ilford Rapid fixer have a pH of 5.2 to 5.4, Boric acid which is used as an eye bath has a pH of 5.2, we are talking about barely acidic with these fixers. In contrast older acid fixers were around pH 4.3.

All the claims for alkali fixers with regards to shortened wash times etc are similar to Ilford's recommendations for Hypam & Rapid Fixer.

Ian

thefizz · Jul 11, 2011

What about these neutral fixers which claim to be better than both acid and alkali fixers:

http://www.digitaltruth.com/products/silvergrain_fixandwash.php
http://www.macodirect.de/rollei-neutralbr1-liter-p-1158.html

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 11, 2011

Never tried those completely neutral fixers, but I would expect them to behave much like Ilford Hypam, which is already almost neutral.

john_s · Jul 11, 2011

Ian Grant said:
At last some reality Hypam and Ilford Rapid fixer have a pH of 5.2 to 5.4, Boric acid which is used as an eye bath has a pH of 5.2, we are talking about barely acidic with these fixers. In contrast older acid fixers were around pH 4.3.

All the claims for alkali fixers with regards to shortened wash times etc are similar to Ilford's recommendations for Hypam & Rapid Fixer.

Ian

Just as a matter of interest, does Hypam smell of SO2? I use Kodak Flexicolor Fixer(pH=6.2) which is closer to neutral and it smells a little. Agfa FX-Universal smelled the least but is no longer available. It was pH=7.5.

Ian Grant · Jul 12, 2011

john_s said:
Just as a matter of interest, does Hypam smell of SO2? I use Kodak Flexicolor Fixer(pH=6.2) which is closer to neutral and it smells a little. Agfa FX-Universal smelled the least but is no longer available. It was pH=7.5.

Not that I've noticed in use, most chemistry has a slight smell, whether it's developer, stop or fixer. It's more whether an fixer gives off a pungent ammonia smell.

Ian

Martin Rickards · Jan 8, 2017

I wouldn't like to work with alkaline ammonium thiosulphate fixer.

John Wiegerink · Jan 8, 2017

Martin Rickards said:
I wouldn't like to work with alkaline ammonium thiosulphate fixer.

I believe you mean you "would" like to. You can search TF-2 or TF-3 or TF-4 or TF-5. I mix my own TF-2 fixer and love it. Since I can get Sodium Thiosulphate easy I make TF-2 instead of the others.

TF-2
STOCK SOLUTION
Chemical Amount Units
Distilled water 1000 ml
Sodium Thiosulfate 250 g ***
Sodium Sulfite (anhy) 15 g
Sodium Metaborate 10 g
Distilled water to make 1000 ml

Martin Rickards · Jan 8, 2017

John Wiegerink said:
I believe you mean you "would" like to. ...

I thonk the likelyhood of ammonia being given off means I wouldn't like ...

John Wiegerink · Jan 8, 2017

Martin Rickards said:
I thonk the likelyhood of ammonia being given off means I wouldn't like ...

Ah, now I understand! I have an older nose, but TF-2 is still no problem for me at all. You have to stick your nose right into it to even smell the faintest hint of Ammonia. I really love this fixer, but I'm sure I could use the other TF fixers too, but haven't tried them.

ruilourosa · Jan 8, 2017

A heaped tablespoon of borax in a liter of working solution of any hypam or similar will alkalinize the MF... no smell whatsoever...!!

cheers

GregW · Jan 8, 2017

TF-5 as mentioned earlier in the thread gives off very little ammonia smell. Non that I can discern.

Photo Engineer · Jan 8, 2017

The TF-2 formula above should not give off an ammonia odor. It contains none!

PE

John Wiegerink · Jan 8, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
The TF-2 formula above should not give off an ammonia odor. It contains none!

PE

You're right PE, but there is a faint hint of a slightly "sour" type smell. Of course, like I said, I have a very old sniffer and it doesn't really know what it smells sometimes. In fact my wife has occasionally grabbed me by the hand and took me to the shower. It wasn't for horseplay either. Yup, just another thing that goes to pot when you get older I guess.

Photo Engineer · Jan 8, 2017

Hmmm, I'm so old I knew a few dinosaurs on a first name basis!

My nose doesn't work well either.

PE

John Wiegerink · Jan 8, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
Hmmm, I'm so old I knew a few dinosaurs on a first name basis!

My nose doesn't work well either.

PE

One thing about us humans is we can always find somebody in the same boat we're in. Nice to have you rowing about the same speed as my PE. Unfortunately I sometimes don't have both oars in the water at the same time. The only bad thing about aging is they haven't found a cure for it yet.

ruilourosa · Jan 8, 2017

never noted a strong smell!! i do not use stopbath in film... just wash!

Photo Engineer · Jan 8, 2017

John Wiegerink said:
One thing about us humans is we can always find somebody in the same boat we're in. Nice to have you rowing about the same speed as my PE. Unfortunately I sometimes don't have both oars in the water at the same time. The only bad thing about aging is they haven't found a cure for it yet.

I've learned that even with one oar you can keep a boat on the straight and narrow if you use the right stroke.

PE

John Wiegerink · Jan 8, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
I've learned that even with one oar you can keep a boat on the straight and narrow if you use the right stroke.

PE

Ahhh, yes! It's all in the right stroke. I must have the wrong stroke 'cause I have a tendency to row around in circles. Maybe it's not my stroke? Maybe I'm leaning the wrong way???????

Photo Engineer · Jan 8, 2017

Learn to use the "J" stroke.

PE

John Wiegerink · Jan 8, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
Learn to use the "J" stroke.

PE

OMG, I never thought of the J stroke! Thanks a million Ron for straightening me out.

LarsAC · Jan 11, 2017

John Wiegerink said:
I believe you mean you "would" like to. You can search TF-2 or TF-3 or TF-4 or TF-5. I mix my own TF-2 fixer and love it. Since I can get Sodium Thiosulphate easy I make TF-2 instead of the others.

TF-2
STOCK SOLUTION
Chemical Amount Units
Distilled water 1000 ml
Sodium Thiosulfate 250 g ***
Sodium Sulfite (anhy) 15 g
Sodium Metaborate 10 g
Distilled water to make 1000 ml

How do you dilute for working solution ? 1+4 ? 1 + 9 ?

Lars

cliveh · Jan 11, 2017

Use a acid fix.

Alkaline Fixers

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