Airport X-ray

Wigwam Jones · Jul 24, 2006

roteague said:
Do you know if the TSA has shared this with other countries?

No, I don't know. I bought a couple of the 'TSA-approved' locks right after they came out - they cut them anyway (sigh). It was not long afterwards that my declining health (6 days a week on the road for 7 years is bad for you, who knew?) and the TSA nonsense conspired to make me quit my road-warrior job in exchange for the old nine-to-five.

My information is therefore at least two-years out-of-date now. I'm sorry!

David A. Goldfarb · Jul 24, 2006

I always check my tripod. I don't see a tripod as something that is likely to be stolen. The thief has to be able to recognize the few expensive tripods in a sea of ordinary ones, and they have to be able to carry it out. It's much easier to steal and fence clean-looking laptops and such.

DBP · Jul 24, 2006

I've had very few problems with TSA, though I may be somewhat spoiled by being in DC - I suspect we get a higher quality of inspector. What little trouble I have had has been in smaller airports. I had one inspector who asked if I had 800 speed film when I asked for hand-inspection. I said I had 3200, but he had some trouble understanding that meant that hand inspection was required. I chalk that one up to simple ignorance. Another tried to persuade me that hand-inspection was not necessary, but reference to the roll of Delta 3200 that always goes with me solved that. The first time I travelled with sheet film I kept it in the holders and carried two severly expired sheets (from the 40s) along as examples. Had a nice conversation with the inspectors, who accepted a sheet to use as a training tool for new inspectors.

roteague · Jul 24, 2006

DBP said:
The first time I travelled with sheet film I kept it in the holders and carried two severly expired sheets (from the 40s) along as examples. Had a nice conversation with the inspectors, who accepted a sheet to use as a training tool for new inspectors.

Not a bad idea, I'll have to try it.

BrianShaw · Jul 24, 2006

A few months ago I flew to and from the Redding CA airport. It's really, really small. The TSA guys were most kind when I asked for hand inspection of film. They took my baggie of exposed 120, looked it over, and put it on a table. I then asked if they wouldn't mind hand checking my film maazines (Hassy). They took them, looked them over, and placed them on the table. Then I put my bag through the machine. Both TSA guys were scrutinizing the machine's screen and whispering. As I picked up the bag one of them asked if I had a Mamiya or Contax 645. When I said "Hassy" they looked at the image again and asked "500 series?" It helps to have a knowledgable TSA person!

DBP · Jul 24, 2006

BrianShaw said:
It helps to have a knowledgable TSA person!

Or one with a decent level of curiosity, like the one who examined my mini-Speed Graphic a while back.

Wigwam Jones · Jul 24, 2006

DBP said:
Or one with a decent level of curiosity, like the one who examined my mini-Speed Graphic a while back.

And not the one who damaged my Yashica GSN, trying to 'turn it on'.

jmailand · Jul 24, 2006

I have brought my own film mailers with me and mailed the film off before I left, when I traveled. Of course this will only work if you stay in country, and use 35mm color. Though there are a few places left in the USA you can mail 120 film for processing. I brought back the B/W film on a trip last year, the Tri-x got zapped but the XP2 came out fine. They were in the same hand checked bag. I guess you could mail all the film back to yourself if you wanted also. I personally have never had a problem with film getting wrecked in the mail.

James,

coriana6jp · Jul 24, 2006

Like Robert, most of my travel is international or domestic inside of Japan. My last trip internationally, which was back to Chicago, the TSA refused to let my tripod be taken aboard, it had to be stowed in the checked baggage. But on my previous trip from Tokyo to Hawaii, there were no problems at all, I carried it onboard, along with a huge photo trekker full of gear. I always carry my film with me, but I just run it through the carry on xray machine with no problems at all. Though its pretty much proven that the xray they use on check bags is much much stronger, and will almost certainly fog film.

Over the last year, I have probably flown over 130,000 miles, and the TSA sems really hit or miss. Depends on the airport, and the superivsors they have at any particular time. If your curious, go over the flyertalk.com, and look in the security forum. Many many tales about the TSA problems.

Hope it helps.

Gary

bdial · Jul 24, 2006

One concern that I have over the carry-on xray machines is that the exposure is cumulative. Even though 1, or perhaps a few trips generally won't cause a problem, several trips through the machine may. Does anyone have any information on how many rounds through an airport xray machine we should limit our film to?
Regarding sheet film, on a recent domestic U.S. trip, my solution was to mail the 4x5 to myself, just to make sure the screeners wouldn't decide that the nice little box of film and holders had to be opened no matter what.

Barry

JBrunner · Jul 24, 2006

bdial said:
One concern that I have over the carry-on xray machines is that the exposure is cumulative. Even though 1, or perhaps a few trips generally won't cause a problem, several trips through the machine may. Does anyone have any information on how many rounds through an airport xray machine we should limit our film to?
Regarding sheet film, on a recent domestic U.S. trip, my solution was to mail the 4x5 to myself, just to make sure the screeners wouldn't decide that the nice little box of film and holders had to be opened no matter what.

Barry

Different emulsions will have varying sensitivity, it would need to be based on a specific speed, or maybe even emulsion, if you were pushing it to the limit.
The most mine have been through is three, both FP4 and HP5.

bjorke · Jul 24, 2006

It's not just TSA, there are plenty of inspectors in foreign countries who just have no patience for this whole "hand inspection" thing.

Note that TSA allows contractors to manage screening, and those contractors, oddly, are NOT required to follow TSA rules

BrianShaw · Jul 24, 2006

bdial said:
One concern that I have over the carry-on xray machines is that the exposure is cumulative. Even though 1, or perhaps a few trips generally won't cause a problem, several trips through the machine may. Does anyone have any information on how many rounds through an airport xray machine we should limit our film to?

Earlier in this thread there was a link to I3A... follow it. This is the industry consortium that did the research from which TSA formulated their policy. the report shows the research (SCIENCE, NOT OPINION) on the damage potential from InVision CTX (checked baggage screening) and Rapiscan (Carry-on baggage scanning) for a wide variety of film types. If more people would check this out there would be far fewer "old wife's tales" and much less fear of the unknown.

BrianShaw · Jul 24, 2006

bjorke said:
Note that TSA allows contractors to manage screening, and those contractors, oddly, are NOT required to follow TSA rules

Actually, I don't think this is true anymore, at least not in the US. Getting rid of contractors is exactly why TSA was formed. Airport screening was Federalized because of problems with the prior system of letting the airlines contract those services.

EDIT: Okay, so I read the letter after stating my opinion, which I'm convinced is fact. But maybe I'm wrong. If so, sorry. I sure will be seeking information to corroborate this letter claiming SFO is contracted out. I doubt, however, that TSA rules do not apply. There is something in this story that isn't ringing true.

EDIT2: Okay... I'm sorry. I'm wrong an dyou are right about contracting security at SFO. http://www.flysfo.com/guide_nonflash/airportinfo/safetysecurity.htm http://www.cassfocustomerservice.com/ This web site has several reference to TSA regarding shoe removal, etc but doesn't say that TSA regs apply or don't apply. I'll do both of us a favor and stop saying anything about SFO!

Peter Schrager · Jul 24, 2006

tsa

not film related but my bogen tripod head was split in half on my return trip from Rome. That was in checked baggage. And those heads are made extremely well.The film however was hand carried and did just fine.
Best, Peter

StephenS · Jul 24, 2006

I have a couple hundred dollars of unexposed Tri-X, 35mm and 120, I was too stupid to pay Fed Ex to ship home. Killed by one of the new super scanners FOR check-in baggage overseas!

It has that sine wave through it. Luckily, the exposed film went home another way.

So I tested some of it and the only thing I can use it for is to maybe test out a new pinhole or zone plate. Maybe I could donate it to a school program that needs any supplies it can get, but luckily I'm honest enough not to try and re-sell it to the unsuspecting!

There are some evil new machines out there - beware even with check-in film!

Dave Parker · Jul 24, 2006

David A. Goldfarb said:
I've never seen anyone recommending putting film in checked luggage on the forums I follow. There are usually warnings on the machines not to check film.

I do let film go through carry-on X-ray and have never had a problem. I often use a lead bag for film, and most of the time it goes through without need for further inspection. Sometimes they'll run an explosive residue swab, and less frequently do a hand inspection. I have a small case that I put in checked luggage for all the things that seem to attract the curiosity of inspectors--cable releases, Linhof rangefinder cams, small tools, spanners, and such.

I agree with David, I have never seen anyone in over 15 years of coresponding online recommend putting film in checked on baggage, I traveled a whole bunch for a long time, including about 10 days or so after 9/11 and carry my film in carry on and run them through the carry on x-ray and never have had a problem, but all recommendations I have always seen online has to NOT put in the checked baggage..

Dave

StephenS · Jul 24, 2006

There are new machines, outside the U.S., that will ruin checked-on baggage film. Some places will absoulutely not hand inspect. One airport to be aware of is Ben Gurion.

If in doubt, the best thing to do is Fed-Ex. It may cost a bit, but in the long run it is VERY worth it.

BrianShaw · Jul 24, 2006

Dave Parker said:
I agree with David, I have never seen anyone in over 15 years of coresponding online recommend putting film in checked on baggage ... but all recommendations I have always seen online has to NOT put in the checked baggage..

I didn't want to be offensive to Bill by saying this but since you Daves said it out loud, I'll say "I agree".

David A. Goldfarb · Jul 24, 2006

Peter Schrager said:
not film related but my bogen tripod head was split in half on my return trip from Rome. That was in checked baggage. And those heads are made extremely well.The film however was hand carried and did just fine.
Best, Peter

Ouch. I pack my tripod in a Tenba TTP case with the handles loose or removed. So far so good for several years now.

roteague · Jul 24, 2006

bdial said:
One concern that I have over the carry-on xray machines is that the exposure is cumulative. Even though 1, or perhaps a few trips generally won't cause a problem, several trips through the machine may. Does anyone have any information on how many rounds through an airport xray machine we should limit our film to?
Regarding sheet film, on a recent domestic U.S. trip, my solution was to mail the 4x5 to myself, just to make sure the screeners wouldn't decide that the nice little box of film and holders had to be opened no matter what.

Barry

I've had my film (Velvia) go through the scanners as many as 7 times with no hint of a problem. I keep my sheet film in the camera bag, and don't call attention to it. I've only had problems once, when I asked for a hand check - so, I don't ask for hand checked anymore.

Edwardv · Jul 24, 2006

Three weeks ago I departed BWI for San Antonio, Texas, the TSA supervisor gave me a hard time about hand inspecting my film. She finally gave in. I was very happy she did. On my return I didn't have a problem. I really don't understand why hand inspecting should be a problem for the TSA. I believe in time hand inspection of film will no longer be an option.

bjorke · Jul 24, 2006

A couple of months ago at Mpls/StPaul...

I had my Bronica and two ziplocs containing either exposed or un-exposed rolls. They went to hand check.

The unexposed rolls were still in foil and the lady started cutting them open.

One of them set off her sniffer machine. It might have been the foild wrap - she couldn't reproduce the effect.

So she took all the rolls and dumped them back into ONE bag with both exposed and unexposed films and said they ALL had to go into the XRay.

I protested, and said that there was no reason to xray films other than the ones that she'd had a problem with. I said she could go ahead and xray the unexposed ones if she needed to. She said no way.

Fortunately the superviser wandered by at that moment and I explained that bag (A) had a problem so she'd mixxed it with bag (B) -- happily roll film is easy to distinguish as either exposed or unexposed. I could separate them. I showed the supervisor the foil packs in the trash right there. I showed her the rolls. I told her to go ahead, xray the un-used film, I'll write it off or use it for tests but that my exposed negs were irreplaceable so please leave them alone.

The first woman looked very sheepish. The supervisor handed me my film and wished me a pleasant flight.

DBP · Jul 24, 2006

Edwardv said:
Three weeks ago I departed BWI for San Antonio, Texas, the TSA supervisor gave me a hard time about hand inspecting my film. She finally gave in. I was very happy she did. On my return I didn't have a problem. I really don't understand why hand inspecting should be a problem for the TSA. I believe in time hand inspection of film will no longer be an option.

We just have to hope that at least one Congressman is a shutterbug.

Wigwam Jones · Jul 24, 2006

BrianShaw said:
I didn't want to be offensive to Bill by saying this but since you Daves said it out loud, I'll say "I agree".

No harm, no offense. Sorry I wasn't able to respond to all who added their comments, but believe it or not, I was at my photography club meeting, just got home.

Anyway, no I have not seen anyone HERE on APUG say that they recommended putting film in checked luggage. Perhaps not anywhere, in those exact terms.

What I have seen is repeated statements by folks responding to "what do I do with my film at the airport" threads by saying they put their film through checked luggage all the time without any damage. I've always responded that they were lucky and they should not recommend that to others just because they lucked out once or twice.

'Twas not here on APUG that these exchanges took place. It always squicked me a bit, because innocent people just asking for opinions might well think that x-ray damage is just bunk and go ahead and then lose their precious photos.

Ah, just a pet peeve. Sorry.

Airport X-ray

Wigwam Jones

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

DBP

roteague

BrianShaw

DBP

Wigwam Jones

jmailand

coriana6jp

bdial

JBrunner

Moderator

bjorke

BrianShaw

BrianShaw

Peter Schrager

StephenS

Dave Parker

StephenS

BrianShaw

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

roteague

Edwardv

bjorke

DBP

Wigwam Jones

Airport X-ray

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency