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aRolleiBrujo

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I don't understand agitations! I tried to figure it out, I just don't get it! Is it supposed to be nonstop? Do i continue agitation for the whole 9,10,30 minutes? Do I set it down for a second, or 30 seconds? Am I supposed to continue to flip up and down for each time, then let it rest on one side, flip it over again, and continue this process for the assigned time, say, 15 minutes? This is regarding the caffenol process exclusively, if that matters?



http://www.caffenol.org/2010/10/12/kodak-t-max-from-t-grain-to-coffee-granules/
 
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aRolleiBrujo

aRolleiBrujo

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summicron1

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never done the coffee thing, but all agitation I do involves tipping the tank upside down, then back, then upside down, for about 10 seconds every 30 for whatever the whole development time is.

Agitation's purpose is to have fresh developer on the surface of the film. When you develop film you use up the chemistry adjacent to the film's surface, but that takes a little time, so the idea is to replace it at regular intervals and give it time to do it's thing, then change it again. The amount of time you agitate can determine contrast and rate of development, things determined by the film's maker to give you what the maker considers to be ideal results.

So, if you are agitating for 10 seconds, say, yes, you flip it over and over for 10 seconds, then stop.
 

Rick A

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When I was in college, we were in the dark room when the prof came in and heard me saying her name at my film canister. She asked what that was about, i replied "I'm agitating my film". I really had no love for that are professor, she was mean spirited and went out of her way to get a young gal with dwarfism to quit the class. Her reasoning was the girl couldn't keep up because of a disability. I spent an entire semester antagonizing the prof.
 

summicron1

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When I was in college, we were in the dark room when the prof came in and heard me saying her name at my film canister. She asked what that was about, i replied "I'm agitating my film". I really had no love for that are professor, she was mean spirited and went out of her way to get a young gal with dwarfism to quit the class. Her reasoning was the girl couldn't keep up because of a disability. I spent an entire semester antagonizing the prof.

i have a few folks like that. I say I'm going to carve their name on a tree and then cut the tree down.
 

GRHazelton

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Summricon1 speaks wisdom. That's pretty much what I've always done, although I like to add a little twist, and at the end I give the tank a little rap on the counter, just for good measure. Haven't broken a tank ... yet!
 
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aRolleiBrujo

aRolleiBrujo

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i have a few folks like that. I say I'm going to carve their name on a tree and then cut the tree down.
Noooo! Please be kind to mother nature as she is to us! Instead take a photo of it it'll last longer plus you can show your friends and family!
 
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aRolleiBrujo

aRolleiBrujo

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never done the coffee thing, but all agitation I do involves tipping the tank upside down, then back, then upside down, for about 10 seconds every 30 for whatever the whole development time is.

Agitation's purpose is to have fresh developer on the surface of the film. When you develop film you use up the chemistry adjacent to the film's surface, but that takes a little time, so the idea is to replace it at regular intervals and give it time to do it's thing, then change it again. The amount of time you agitate can determine contrast and rate of development, things determined by the film's maker to give you what the maker considers to be ideal results.

So, if you are agitating for 10 seconds, say, yes, you flip it over and over for 10 seconds, then stop.


This was a huge fear factor for my next 120 development! Thank you very much for your time and educational aid!
 

removed account4

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the way i agitate caffenol 130 is
1 full min ( lazy 8's while turning the tank upside down too )
and then 10 seconds every 60 for the duration of the developing time
i sometimes agitate by shaking the tank up and down for 30 seconds or a minute too
or i roll the tank continuously on its side in the sink for a while ...

but there are different ways people do it
here are a few examples:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s1/s...92dbf1eb2b95/fe1427daa5e3077d79f48235dd617d86
or
http://www.retiredcameras.com/caffenol.html
or with a swizzle stick
https://www.flickr.com/groups/33051635@N00/discuss/72157625001375111/
or space out your inversions
http://largeformat-caffenol.blogspot.com/p/recipes.html


i guess the trick is to shoot a few rolls of film with nothing important on them and
experiment a little and see how much or how little or how rough or how gentle works for you ...

sorry for not being much help :wink:
good luck !
john
 

cliveh

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The general rule is 30 second agitation in the first minute and 10 seconds agitation in every minute there after.
 
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aRolleiBrujo

aRolleiBrujo

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the way i agitate caffenol 130 is
1 full min ( lazy 8's while turning the tank upside down too )
and then 10 seconds every 60 for the duration of the developing time
i sometimes agitate by shaking the tank up and down for 30 seconds or a minute too
or i roll the tank continuously on its side in the sink for a while ...

but there are different ways people do it
here are a few examples:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s1/s...92dbf1eb2b95/fe1427daa5e3077d79f48235dd617d86
or
http://www.retiredcameras.com/caffenol.html
or with a swizzle stick
https://www.flickr.com/groups/33051635@N00/discuss/72157625001375111/
or space out your inversions
http://largeformat-caffenol.blogspot.com/p/recipes.html


i guess the trick is to shoot a few rolls of film with nothing important on them and
experiment a little and see how much or how little or how rough or how gentle works for you ...

sorry for not being much help :wink:
good luck !
john

DUH! I should have asked the APUG Caffenol ambassador first! I think I spontaneously shake the tank as well, mostly out of fear, becasue I have no clue what is going on in that tank, let alone know what to expect after! I read all these terms of thin negative this, and densitometers that, and so, like most things in my world, that is above my head!
 

removed account4

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:wink:

if you shake it up just remember what it looks like when you do it
and if you like it, enjoy yourself, if you don't like it, make a mental note
" do not shake "
that's what i do ...

i also add a smidgen of print developer ( ansco 130 .. dektol will work too )
to the caffneol c and stand develop ( agitate once, whack the tank get air bubbles off film and leave alone without agitation )
for 30 minutes my film looks beautiful ... ( i add 15-20 cc / L )

the best thing to do is to is try a lot of different things and see what happens
because my " do this and that, but not this " might not work for you
because you expose and use your film differently, you mix your developer differently, you don't use expired shelf stored film,
you use a different coffee, your washing soda isn't full of water &c .. so maybe nothing i suggest will work :wink:

have fun!
john
 
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aRolleiBrujo

aRolleiBrujo

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The general rule is 30 second agitation in the first minute and 10 seconds agitation in every minute there after.

Ok, so, 30 second agitation via timer or 1 one thousand, or both, and next, 1 one thousand, 10 one thousand, pause, finally, 1 one thousand, 2 one thousand, until 10 one thousand, until completion of time, for example agitate for 15 minutes. This goes for the rinses and the fixer as well, I'd assume? It seemed all too strange to me, but, off to try again tonight, wish me well! Thanks again everyone, for your first hand, non googled human approach! :devil:
 

MattKing

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Ok, so, 30 second agitation via timer or 1 one thousand, or both, and next, 1 one thousand, 10 one thousand, pause, finally, 1 one thousand, 2 one thousand, until 10 one thousand, until completion of time, for example agitate for 15 minutes. This goes for the rinses and the fixer as well, I'd assume? It seemed all too strange to me, but, off to try again tonight, wish me well! Thanks again everyone, for your first hand, non googled human approach! :devil:

Calm is required :wink:.

Agitation is pretty simple. Essentially, you are just moving the liquid around regularly to make sure that the liquid against the film stays fresh.

When instructions say to agitate for 30 seconds, it means that you smoothly and repeatedly turn the tank upside down and then back rightside up. As you do so you twist it a bit so the liquid inside moves up and down and swirls a bit each time.

I like to take about 2 - 3 seconds for each full cycle. So 30 seconds of agitation should result in 10 - 15 cycles. Use the time for each cycle that you are comfortable with, and that you can easily repeat for each roll you develop.

If you decide to agitate every 30 seconds afterwards, then you watch a clock and every time the second hand passes another 30 seconds, you pick up the tank, give it two cycles of inversion in the same smooth and repeatable way. At the end of each cycle, gently rap the bottom of the tank on a towel on your counter-top, and put the tank back down.

If you prefer agitation on 60 second intervals, that works well as well (for reasonably long times). Instead of two inversion cycles every 30 seconds, I would suggest four inversion cycles each 60 seconds - they should take in total about ten seconds.

Agitation should have energy, but not be violent. If you do it to music, something mid-tempo is best - avoid thrash metal or baby lullaby.

It is far easier to show you how to combine inversions and twisting than it is to explain it, but I can suggest an experiment. Take the tank in both hands, with your left hand on the top, and right hand on the bottom. Then use your arms and wrists to invert the tank, ending up with the tank upside down, and your right hand above your left. Watch how the tank naturally twist as it turns upside down - that is the sort of movement that works.
 
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aRolleiBrujo

aRolleiBrujo

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An atrocity has occurred! Oh the horror's of mismanagement and laziness! The ineptitude of one man has lead to the decimation of another man's creation, and hard work! I have developed an unspent roll, of the beautifully created gift of Ilford!
God bless its untimely and horrific death, by the hands of an uncouth, and unskilled sub-Neanderthal! As I grabbed from my pile of 120 film's to bathe in the vile Caffenol, by the hands of this untidy bloke, nothing convinced me further, that my slight hunch tingly the hairs of my neck, attempting to stop me, nay, save the life of this lost wonderment that the Ilford God's created for my soiled, and unworthy palms, Ilford's FP4 Plus 120 Black & White Negative (Print) Film (ISO-125), has succumbed to my ignorance and vile mind!
My stomach wrenched at the sight of its poor lifeless pale body! I know understand how Edgar Allan Poe felt, when describing the lost Ligeia, and the never forgotten Annabelle Lee, although the kingdom by the sea, was no other than my filthy restroom, and in my closet, the sepulcher where it shall rest its mangled body to be displayed evermore a reminder of my insolence to its beautiful creation followed by it ghastly and unnecessary demise!




In pace requiescat!
 
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aRolleiBrujo

aRolleiBrujo

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Calm is required :wink:.

Agitation is pretty simple. Essentially, you are just moving the liquid around regularly to make sure that the liquid against the film stays fresh.

When instructions say to agitate for 30 seconds, it means that you smoothly and repeatedly turn the tank upside down and then back rightside up. As you do so you twist it a bit so the liquid inside moves up and down and swirls a bit each time.

I like to take about 2 - 3 seconds for each full cycle. So 30 seconds of agitation should result in 10 - 15 cycles. Use the time for each cycle that you are comfortable with, and that you can easily repeat for each roll you develop.

If you decide to agitate every 30 seconds afterwards, then you watch a clock and every time the second hand passes another 30 seconds, you pick up the tank, give it two cycles of inversion in the same smooth and repeatable way. At the end of each cycle, gently rap the bottom of the tank on a towel on your counter-top, and put the tank back down.

If you prefer agitation on 60 second intervals, that works well as well (for reasonably long times). Instead of two inversion cycles every 30 seconds, I would suggest four inversion cycles each 60 seconds - they should take in total about ten seconds.

Agitation should have energy, but not be violent. If you do it to music, something mid-tempo is best - avoid thrash metal or baby lullaby.

It is far easier to show you how to combine inversions and twisting than it is to explain it, but I can suggest an experiment. Take the tank in both hands, with your left hand on the top, and right hand on the bottom. Then use your arms and wrists to invert the tank, ending up with the tank upside down, and your right hand above your left. Watch how the tank naturally twist as it turns upside down - that is the sort of movement that works.

Thanks for the very thorough explanation Matt, I appreciate it very much, and I will make all of these suggestions my sticky note, especially the next time I have the supplies for Caffenol, well, I need the Vitamin C only, but, it is late, and I do not wish to travel, as Denn die Todten reiten schnell, and I have no wish to feed zombies, yet!
 

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Damn you fool!!! you were sacked! wait . . . . wait . . . . . wait!! You were SACKED again. wait and then repeat
 

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Thanks for the very thorough explanation Matt, I appreciate it very much, and I will make all of these suggestions my sticky note, especially the next time I have the supplies for Caffenol, well, I need the Vitamin C only, but, it is late, and I do not wish to travel, as Denn die Todten reiten schnell, and I have no wish to feed zombies, yet!

some people make caffenol WITHOUT the vit c, and swear by it.

the trick about getting advice about films and developer and technique on the internet
is that what one person does might not work for you .. and visa versa.

do you have any print developer ?
you could make a batch of your caffenol without vit c and add a shot glass full ( 1oz - 1.5 oz ) of
whatever print developer you have on hand ( dektol, selectol, ilfosol, ansco &c ) and expose a test roll
and see how it looks, you might like the results better than the results you get from the caffenol with vit c in it.

i started putting the ansco in mine because the negatives i was getting with straight stock caffenol c ( teaspoon measures )
were a bit thin for my taste. i added a tiny bit of the developer and it changed my results ... and then i started using beans
because i noticed too much of a difference between the instant coffees i was using.

if you have some film you don't mind bracketing and then developing it might help you nail your exposure and processing as well.
 
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aRolleiBrujo

aRolleiBrujo

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Damn you fool!!! you were sacked! wait . . . . wait . . . . . wait!! You were SACKED again. wait and then repeat

GO #COWBOYS! Dallas Cowboys

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Live on FOX
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Live Update - Live Stream
 
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analoguey

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Agitation might depend on your tank too? I have a daylight tank which, while light proof, doesn't have a secondary lid to keep the liquid in place, so I just swirl it around, instead of the Up-down thingy -somewhere recently I read that it prevents bubbles -could be; my films didn't show any.
Also, since you're only trying to keep developer fresh and not clinging to film, it circles it around them all.
My 4x5 processing is kinda similar, in tray and with a tube!

Sent from Tap-a-talk
 
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aRolleiBrujo

aRolleiBrujo

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Well you can at least check that the edge numbers came out properly so you know your caffenol is working....



It was worse than I mentioned! I actually developed a roll of color E6 FILM! I devastated my beautifully crafted photographs! All lost, all gone, and wiped from memory! :sad::cry::cry:
 

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It was worse than I mentioned! I actually developed a roll of color E6 FILM! I devastated my beautifully crafted photographs! All lost, all gone, and wiped from memory! :sad::cry::cry:

All of us have had similar disasters developing film, if not our errors then those of others.

Re E 6: I once in error included a cassette of E 6 with several cassettes of C 41 I dropped off at a kiosk. The dolts doing the work didn't notice, and ran all through the C 41 line. When I remonstrated and wanted the promised replacement roll, they tried to blame their error on me, worrying that the E 6 had contaminated the line. Since the kiosk was owned by the family which controlled all media in this small town (and the owner was a vindictive SOB, and I was a public library director) I gritted my teeth, cursed under my breath, and walked away. If I find the resultant negatives I'll try scanning them; perhaps I could compensate for the lack of the orange mask.
 

pentaxuser

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Re E 6: I once in error included a cassette of E 6 with several cassettes of C 41 I dropped off at a kiosk. The dolts doing the work didn't notice, and ran all through the C 41 line. When I remonstrated and wanted the promised replacement roll, they tried to blame their error on me, worrying that the E 6 had contaminated the line. Since the kiosk was owned by the family which controlled all media in this small town (and the owner was a vindictive SOB, and I was a public library director) I gritted my teeth, cursed under my breath, and walked away. .

Until I heard this I had always thought of Jonesboro as being such a friendly and folksy town. It somehow sounds that way but clearly there are folks and then there are other folks:sad:

pentaxuser
 
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