Agfa slide film... how well does it age?

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dmtnkl

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So occasionally i stumble on some agfa slide film that has mid-2000s expiration dates. Since i have never shot any of it and would like to try, i wonder how well they age with time... more specifically RSX/RSXII and the original precisa (not the rebranded fuji).

I know in the end i will have to actually give it a try, but have any of you some idea or gotten actual results to form an opinion on how well they age?

For example, i have shot at box speed fuji sensia 100 expired since 2004/2005 and it came out perfect.
 

foc

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The original Agfa Precisa has the red diamond with Agfa in white letters. The next Precisa was by Agfaphoto with the large red dot. The first generation was made by Ferrania and the box had a yellow boat in the film strip on it, (2005 to 2010 approx). The second generation was made by Fuji and had multi coloured beach huts in the film strip on it (2010 to 2018 approx).

So I would think that the Ferrania Precisa is the same as Solaris Chrome, and Fuji Precisa is the same as Fujichrome Provia.

1216x181x2.jpg
 

Trask

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I live in Virginia but am in California for the moment, so can’t open my freezer to check all details — but I shot some of my stash of frozen RSX (or RSX II?) 120 slide film a few months back and had it processed at Dodge Chrome labs in McLean/Silver Spring. It came out just fine, with no apparent loss of speed. Colors were all true. This film is at least 12 years old, but you wouldn’t know it by the results. I’ve always kept it in a freezer, and it’s likely the fellow I bought it from did too. I’d post a scan if I could...
 
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dmtnkl

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a scan would be welcome, whenever you get back home :smile:
 

trendland

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The original Agfa Precisa has the red diamond with Agfa in white letters. The next Precisa was by Agfaphoto with the large red dot. The first generation was made by Ferrania and the box had a yellow boat in the film strip on it, (2005 to 2010 approx). The second generation was made by Fuji and had multi coloured beach huts in the film strip on it (2010 to 2018 approx).

So I would think that the Ferrania Precisa is the same as Solaris Chrome, and Fuji Precisa is the same as Fujichrome Provia.

1216x181x2.jpg

Some made tests and compared before. The first Fuji Precisas came from older Provia100 (without F)
later Fuji had no Provias 100 and gave brand new Provia100 F to (Lupus?) Agfa. Because it would have been more expensive to produce the unimproved Provia100 in addition.

with regards
 

trendland

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So occasionally i stumble on some agfa slide film that has mid-2000s expiration dates. Since i have never shot any of it and would like to try, i wonder how well they age with time... more specifically RSX/RSXII and the original precisa (not the rebranded fuji).

I know in the end i will have to actually give it a try, but have any of you some idea or gotten actual results to form an opinion on how well they age?

For example, i have shot at box speed fuji sensia 100 expired since 2004/2005 and it came out perfect.

Hands of original Agfa Precisas if they were not couled/freezed same would be with FERRANIA Chrome Precisas (I have no experience but could imagine) with the Provia100 generated Precisas you will have luck (also without good storage) for 4 - 6 years after exspiration.

with regards
 

trendland

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I live in Virginia but am in California for the moment, so can’t open my freezer to check all details — but I shot some of my stash of frozen RSX (or RSX II?) 120 slide film a few months back and had it processed at Dodge Chrome labs in McLean/Silver Spring. It came out just fine, with no apparent loss of speed. Colors were all true. This film is at least 12 years old, but you wouldn’t know it by the results. I’ve always kept it in a freezer, and it’s likely the fellow I bought it from did too. I’d post a scan if I could...

RSX II is the worst case I ever remember from expiration dates. Yes theese films came extreme cheep
(1,50 - 2,- bucks) with short expiration dates in 120. But I can say most of that stuff had Bad colors just with 8 month after expiration. You may see the same yellow cast as with E6 daylight in 3200 Kelvin thungsten location.

with regards

PS : To Lomo Fans perhaps ok (at 1 Buck) but extreme "beware off" with that emulsion .
 

Toyo

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All Agfa slide film that I have used has yellowed as it aged after processing.
I am talking about fresh film processed immediately.
The colour dyes seem to develop a yellow orange cast to the film as the time passes following development
T
 

trendland

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All Agfa slide film that I have used has yellowed as it aged after processing.
I am talking about fresh film processed immediately.
The colour dyes seem to develop a yellow orange cast to the film as the time passes following development
T

You mean expired ffilm right?
With fresh Film it wasn't the issue on Agfa from my experience.

With regards
 

AgX

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RSX II is the worst case I ever remember from expiration dates. Yes theese films came extreme cheep
(1,50 - 2,- bucks) with short expiration dates in 120. But I can say most of that stuff had Bad colors just with 8 month after expiration. You may see the same yellow cast as with E6 daylight in 3200 Kelvin thungsten location.

Agfa Avichrome had the emulsion-formula that was used in the RSXII from the 90s. And indeed at some rebranded films (Rollei Chrome CR 200) there was reported a yellow hue.
 

trendland

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Agfa Avichrome had the emulsion-formula that was used in the RSXII from the 90s. And indeed at some rebranded films (Rollei Chrome CR 200) there was reported a yellow hue.
From my point this is a very very special issue with Agfa chromes. If you for example remember the extreme high priced Agfa professional cromes (in that silver package wich was new at the late 70th).
It was more expensive in comparison to Kodak E6 professional films at this time. In Europe Agfa had obviously more reputation in comparison (caused from a gerneration of professional photographers who started their carrier within the 50th).
I can't say (to expensive to that time) so I have no experience with the Generation RS and RSX of Agfa chromes. But they were obviously not bad to that time far behind in comparison (Fuji had no reputation from professionals during the 70th) .
Also amatheuric chromes like CT18 were real nice Agfa Films and absolut cheap in comparison to other brands. CT18 first generation wasn't E6 if I remember correct.

Coming to OP's question. There is a Berlin based photographer who swear about the characteristics of
the RSX II ISO 200 (wich is real grainy at ISO 200 by the way) she used this emulsion because of its special colors. She had frozen around 1000 Films of the last batches because she want to proceed with that emulsion the next coming decades.Perhaps the Op had heard from other sources out of the net that the original Agfa Chromes had nice colors (indeed there is a difference from LOOK and characteristics to modern Fuji E6 and Ektachromes).
I would state the problem is from the date of production. The origin Agfa CT100 Precisas are much less stabile in comparison to each Kodak or Fuji E6 if the Films are expired.
But the main difference is : If you got a brand new fresh Precisa 100, RSX, RSXII or what ever from Agfa and this Film is emidiately couled or freezed (freezed in regard of the longer term use).
You should have real original colors. The fresh Agfas had an expiration guarantee of around two years.
The professional Agfa chromes you got just couled in your professionell store.

The amatheuric Agfachromes should hold for more than 2 years after fresh production there origin characteristics because that was the workflow of amatheuric photograpers (Films remaining in the camera over months).

But from my experience 10 Agfa CT100 (wich haven't seen a couled storage at me) came oute of a 10 Film box summer 1999. Some remaining ones exposed 2001 and developed (no it wasn't the lab) showes a greenish cast wich was such extreme I had never seen before within 25 years.
I checked the expiration date and noticed : OK in 2001 the film out of this box are expired (but just around some month) So my experience with original CT 100 is the amatheuric Agfachromes are within expiration guarantee to shot better you should use it max. 1/2 year before expiration.
(Without couled storage).
So it is all in regard of storage condition of this long discontinued Agfa Films.

The Problem with RSXII is the Agfa bankropcy. Some month after Agfa stopped production a real mass of last batches RSXII came to retailers. They offered nice prices and so this 135-36 Films came close to sold out. Very few were remaining an pricing increased to the "very last Agfa RSXII in 35mm".

But there have been also RSXII in 120 and the demand on 120 Films to that time came much more less. So RSXII were still avaible 1 year after all 35mm of that professional Agfa Chrome were sold out Worldwide.
Later a real mass of " original Agfa produced" RSXII with production dates (expired 06/2006 /082006)
in 120 entered the marked. Also some masterrolls of that emulsion.
Here is the problem with the yellow cast of the RSXII Films. Theese Films were damaged caused from insufficient storage. They seamed to be stored not in a couled condition the were stored in a heated condition. If one imagine from what mysterious sources they came they perhaps were stored in a truck some weeks in summer.
So also Rollei got some masterrolls of bad (damged condition) to that time (without knowing).
Their CR 200 of the first realease was with a yellow cast I remember from 80% of my chromes later
Rollei solved this Problem. I guess a nice amound of cheap masterols Rollei gave into trash.

Last conclusion RSX and RSXII with expiration dates 2004 and before are nice Films and if they are stored well (freezed) you may see nice colors more than an decade after expiration.
But the Films with that expiration and production dates are still not existing on the marked.
Within some exeption remember the Berlin based photographer.
The same is with all 35mm RSXII (but they were sold out short after Agfa stopped production)
What you might will get today (and the Op mentioned the dates I gave too) is stuff were we shout say
"HANDS OFF"

with regards

l
 

trendland

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Last explanation : To the yellow cast. The first RSXII I shot in 2006 was ISO50 and it looked like the sun stands real deep. Indeed it was shot before sunset but it looked like sunrise.
The next was RSXII 100 it looks ok. The next Films looked all like "very deep sun" but they were shot at high noon. All remaining RSXII lost there colors within some month. 2007 some RSXII out of expiration
08/2006) were with extreme yellow cast.

with regards

PS : Films were freezed some weeks after I got them. Still today I shot them while a shooting with other Films in the hope there is one remaining with normal colors. And indeed sometimes I have luck

But I use this emulsion with the intention that to 80% there is just trash. If one may think :waste of money " that may be right but a lab I found develope E6 120 at around 4bucks so one may effort this
waste.
And the last RSX I saw with colors one might find ok was last year. In regard I remember other Agfa brands for example AgfaOptima400 in a 5pack 220 for 6bucks it was a best deal ever at last.
 

juan

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I shot Agfachrome, Ektachrome and Kodachrome back in the 80s. Kodachrome is still perfect, Ektachrome is faded but recoverable with Photoshop, Agfachrome is faded to almost being colorless and what color is there has shifted. I’m able to recover only some of my Agfachrome images in Photoshop.
 

trendland

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I shot Agfachrome, Ektachrome and Kodachrome back in the 80s. Kodachrome is still perfect, Ektachrome is faded but recoverable with Photoshop, Agfachrome is faded to almost being colorless and what color is there has shifted. I’m able to recover only some of my Agfachrome images in Photoshop.
You are right juan I made same experience as you mentioned. But here (from the aproach of the OP) it doesn't go about long therm stabile colors (there it is indeed like you stated) here it goes about color shifting at the first day you have a LOOK on your slides when you got them back from lab.
(fresh developed).

with regards
 

twelvetone12

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I used the Wittner flavor of Agfa Avichrome, and nearing the expiry date they all started to get more and more yellow. I wonder if long expired film would yield any colors at all.
 

trendland

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I used the Wittner flavor of Agfa Avichrome, and nearing the expiry date they all started to get more and more yellow. I wonder if long expired film would yield any colors at all.
Some experts of storage media (archivist) discussed this a time ago. An universal validity between such experts is the conclusion of an inability to archive ANY COLOR MATERIAL !
Listen I N ABILITY :sad:....it is in concern of any film material and print material in color!
So it is also with K14 films ? Yes of course.

The statement to bw media is quite clear : To archivists bw films and bw prints are "archivable".

with regards:pouty:

PS : The long term to archivists is with other dimentions. They have to care about min. 150years.
There perspective is to folowing generations in 300 years.

But no matter to be confused about because SD -card from digital bolides will also show
" just nothing " to the generation living in 300years. Sometimes it is just so in 20years.

The earlier the medium came on the market the longer it is able to store data.

SD card, ........color film..... bw film......paper (New Generation)......paper(papyrus).....roseta stone.....
stones of the Egyptians.
 

trendland

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I used the Wittner flavor of Agfa Avichrome, and nearing the expiry date they all started to get more and more yellow. I wonder if long expired film would yield any colors at all.
If you freeze fresh film with expiration dates of nearly 2 years (color) or 3 years (bw) at around 0 degreeF better should be -11F (I can't say what is indeed better but 0F / - 18C cost less energy)
the chemical oldering of film came nearly to zero.
So it is (theoreticaly) with films wich have just 6 month to their expiration date (for example) you may
freeze them to 9 years and when they will be taken after this out of the freezer the clock is running again and will begin at 6month to their expiration date.
If it is market with 04/2019 they are T H E N expired 04/2028 !!!!!
(Just theoreticaly) but if you remember there are sometimes films with short expiration of perhaps 4month remaining (remember B&H offerings) you may buy ProviaF at a special price of 5 a half bucks?
You might actually shot them after freezing 2028 to a time Fuji is pricing Provia RTP IV at 55,- bucks:sick:!
But think about just one of this 3 scenarios is realistic : Special pricing of B&H !
Because I doubt on Provia RTP IV, on an avaibility 2028 in general and on demand at 55,- bucks:wink:
 

twelvetone12

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Trendland i don't want to sound rude but are you replying to me? I'm not sure I can follow your comments...

In any case, I know any color material will fade. In my experience with aviphot, I got very different results coming from the same batch of film and stores in the same way, before expiration. The tendency was a strong fade to yellow.

EDIT: "can" -> cokpleycom is the most weird autocorrect up to now.
 
Last edited:

lantau

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I have two rolls of RXS II, which I found in the camera case of a Rolleiflex, which I bought. Probably stored at room temperature. Expired around 2005. Having tried the terrible CR200 I guess there is no need to use them. At least they make nice show pieces in their box (120 film).

Recently I met a cousin after around 20 years. His were the only slide shows I ever experienced when I was a child. I asked him if it was Kodachrome but he told me no. He didn't like the colour. Ektachrome faded on him quickly and all his problems disappeared when he started using Fuji. He liked the cooler colour and they were stable.

I wonder how the re-released Ektachrome will be doing.
 

trendland

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Trendland i don't want to sound rude but are you replying to me? I'm not sure I cokpleycom follow your comments...

In any case, I know any color material will fade. In my experience with aviphot, I got very different results coming from the same batch of film and stores in the same way, before expiration. The tendency was a strong fade to yellow.
Yes that's what we discussed foreward - the rest is mentioned in addition. By the way some aviphot stuff wich was supplied from Wittner was ok (without yellow cast) the same is with stuff from Rollei
(good characteristics on aviphot) but the main stuff to that time was damaged.

with regards:wink:
 

mshchem

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I think biggest factor with Ektachrome is how it was processed. Kodak (real Kodak ) lab processed Ektachrome I have from the 70's still looks great. Kodachrome from 1949 looks great. Anscochrome from 40's faded but recoverable. I know Kodak doesn't want to vex their lab/dealers but a develop and scan service out of LA and Rochester would be interesting, don't offer mounting. Leave that to the existing labs. I guess Dwaynes is a sure thing. Maybe a dumb idea?
 
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