Agfa Silette not cocking the shutter reliably - Any suggestions?

Pioneer · Jan 12, 2023

I have a small problem with my little Agfa Silette. The shutter has quit cocking reliably when the film is advanced. Right now it is working again but it randomly quits cocking the shutter seemingly whenever it feels like it. Then it will randomly start working again.

Normally I would just toss the camera away and not worry about it. These are nice little cameras but even when they were new they were just basic point and shoot cameras with no meter and no rangefinder.

However... There always seems to be a however. This particular camera is blessed with a little 45mm f2.8 Color Apotar lens is one of those rare lenses that regularly produces amazing results that are far beyond what one would expect from a humble triplet lens.

So, I would like to cure the problem if it is possible. Maybe someone out there in Photrio land has had a similar problem and can walk me thru a repair.

Any thoughts, suggestions or ideas are welcome.

albada · Jan 13, 2023

The cocking mechanism between the advance lever and the shutter has become gummed up due to old grease, and has enough friction that it's not moving quite far enough, and thus not quite cocking the shutter completely. You'll need to remove the top cover and lube the mechanics up there. Or wait for spring; it might cock fine in warmer weather.

BTW, I agree about Agfa's triplet lenses. The f/3.5 lens on my lowly Silettes produce Tessar-like images.

Mark

gone · Jan 13, 2023

albada said what I was thinking, but the top will probably have to come off in any case. Triplets image a little differently than lenses w/ 4 or more elements, I like them a lot.

Nicholas Lindan · Jan 13, 2023

Which model of Silette do you have? There were numerous versions of this camera.

In later models (also earlier?) there is a geared shaft that winds the shutter. It runs from the body into the lens assembly. If you remove the lens assembly/front plate you can then try winding the shutter sans the body and see if the problem is in the shutter or in the body.

The front plate may be held on with screws from the inside of the camera or you may have to peal back the 'leatherette' around the plate to get at the screws from the front of the camera.

There are a few youtube videos on repairing Silettes.

cmacd123 · Jan 13, 2023

for what little I know, the general rule is that shutters tend to require an extremely small amount of Lubrication, and often too much oil is the reason that they Jamb up. if you can see Oil on the shutter blades the shutter should be dismatled and the varoius parts cleaned with an ultrasonic cleaner.

the shutter proably has a adjustment for Overtravel to ensure the cocking mechanism from the camera body turns the tensioning spring far enough that the lever is held by a stop until the shutter release lets the mechanism run.

what shutter is on teh camer? a Pronto or something else?

Pioneer · Jan 14, 2023

Interesting. I had not considered temperature being an issue but now that you bring it up the problem first surfaced when the temperature began to drop below freezing outdoors. And it seems to come back to life after sitting around in the house for awhile. I had been leaning toward having it cleaned by a pro but the expense has discouraged me. After all this is certainly no Leica.

Not sure which model this one is but it is an earlier one, maybe built around 1954.

It has a Pronto shutter. They are supposed to be pretty simple so I was hoping a repair would be simple as well. The shutter speeds are a little slow but not terrible. I was born around the same time that this thing was built and I am also a bit slow so I have been willing to make allowances when I use it.

Since I enjoy using it so much I may as well just bite the bullet and send it out for a cleaning. It has worked for a lot of years, probably with no service at all. I may as well give it a new lease on life.

I am a lot of things but a camera repair tech is not one of those things. Any suggestions?

Nicholas Lindan · Jan 14, 2023

I can't recommend any firm, but I can second the wisdom of sending it out to someone who knows what they are doing.

I have a cupboard full of cameras that were semi-working until I 'fixed' them - now they are all completely non-working. To my credit I have repaired cameras back to working condition; probably more successes than failures but still a whole lot of failures.

cmacd123 · Jan 14, 2023

Pioneer said:
It has a Pronto shutter. They are supposed to be pretty simple so I was hoping a repair would be simple as well. The shutter speeds are a little slow but not terrible. I was born around the same time that this thing was built and I am also a bit slow so I have been willing to make allowances when I use it.

Since I enjoy using it so much I may as well just bite the bullet and send it out for a cleaning. It has worked for a lot of years, probably with no service at all. I may as well give it a new lease on life.

I am a lot of things but a camera repair tech is not one of those things. Any suggestions?

you may want to at least read : https://learncamerarepair.com/productlist.php?category=1&secondary=57 so you have an idea of what the machanism involves. May make the cost of having it overhauled seem like a bargin after all. I belive that the corect lubrication is also covered in that set of documents

cmacd123 · Jan 14, 2023

also the manufacturer manual is at https://learncamerarepair.com/product.php?product=86&category=2&secondary=35 note that it metions oil in this image copied from the book.

BobD · Jan 14, 2023

There are a number of Agfa models with this same lens and most are available online at low cost. Some models have rangefinders too. Why not replace your camera with another working example?

Pioneer · Jan 14, 2023

Thank you Charles. I will review this information with great interest. Like Nicholas I have a few failed repair projects in my past so it really doesn't take a lot of reminding to convince me that paying someone is usually the better part of valor. Though I am naturally a bit of a skinflint I really don't mind spending my money when it is appropriate. This camera and lens is definitely worth rescuing.

As for oil, I shall immediately ban it to the garage and not allow it near my cameras.

BTW, I really appreciate the time all of you have donated in helping me get this sorted out.

Pioneer · Jan 14, 2023

BobD said:
There are a number of Agfa models with this same lens and most are available online at low cost. Some models have rangefinders too. Why not replace your camera with another working example?

I have thought about doing that very thing Bob. The problem really revolves around the lens on this particular camera. I have had a couple of these cameras, even one Super Memar (with the rangefinder), but though they were nice, the lenses on those others were not nearly as nice as this one is. To find such marvelous piece of glass in such a simple camera feels a bit like finding a diamond in a pile of gravel. And of course part of the satisfaction comes from getting such amazing pictures out of such a lo-fi piece of equipment.

Nicholas Lindan · Jan 14, 2023

TTBOMK a triplet lens can, in theory, correct all the major aberrations. However to do that successfully requires excessively tight manufacturing tolerances. Hence the Tessar, the Elmar and all their kin as this design gives more freedom for correcting aberrations.

If this holds true then from time to time by an act of manufacturing serendipity a perfect triplet is produced.

But even a regular plain-ole' triplet performs as well as anything when stopped down to f8-f11.

albada · Jan 15, 2023

Nicholas Lindan said:
But even a regular plain-ole' triplet performs as well as anything when stopped down to f8-f11.

Except for chromatic aberration, which appears as color fringes near edges/corners in color photos and blurriness there in B&W shots. I've seen that in Wollensak Velostigmat and Steinheil Munchen Cassar lenses. Stopping down does not help chromatic aberration. But something went very right in Agfa's optics lab; it's hard for me to see any chromatic aberration in their triplets.

Mark

Nicholas Lindan · Jan 15, 2023

albada said:
But something went very right in Agfa's optics lab; it's hard for me to see any chromatic aberration in their triplets.

Well, the lens is called a "Color Apotar" (That's a tongue in cheek comment, BTW.)

"Back in the day" the better lenses on mid-level cameras were advertised as "color lenses" for use with the new color films. Color lenses were touted as being "color corrected." I imagine they hoped people would buy a new camera to use Kodachrome.

It is impossible to get rid of chromatic aberration in any glass lens but it can be diminished to very small amounts.

Steve Roberts · Jan 15, 2023

Pioneer said:
Normally I would just toss the camera away and not worry about it. These are nice little cameras but even when they were new they were just basic point and shoot cameras with no meter and no rangefinder.

However... There always seems to be a however. This particular camera is blessed with a little 45mm f2.8 Color Apotar lens is one of those rare lenses that regularly produces amazing results that are far beyond what one would expect from a humble triplet lens.

It may be a basic point and shoot camera, but if it works for you and has given good service for so long then IMHO the money you'd spend on a service would be money well spent. Though it may have been cheap 'n' cheerful in its day, by today's manufacturing standards I'll bet it's very well made. I don't know your personal circumstances, but wouldn't it be good to be able to hand Dad's/Grandad's favourite camera down the generations in a working state?

I have a Super Silette (with the rangefinder) in excellent condition that I only bought because of the price (i.e. very cheap). I can't say I've ever put a film through it and I'm no expert on these cameras but I've just taken it from the shelf and handled it and I can see why you like yours. Bite the bullet and pay the money!

Let us know what happens!

Best wishes,

Steve

Pioneer · Jan 16, 2023

Steve Roberts said:
...Bite the bullet and pay the money!

Let us know what happens!

Best wishes,

Steve

Okay, you talked me into it. Now I have to find someone who can clean it up, adjust it and put it back together so it is good for another 70 years.

Agfa Silette not cocking the shutter reliably - Any suggestions?

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Agfa Silette not cocking the shutter reliably - Any suggestions?

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