AGFA Rumor

Christopher Nisperos · Oct 6, 2006

Fleath said:
... a lot of thanks to Christopher Nisperos for relaying all that information for us, maybe APUG should be sending it's own reporters to these shows.

Fleath, you're more than welcome. Just because you're 'down under' shouldn't mean you won't get the news that's 'over the top'! But seriously, I figure that that's part of the value of a forum such as this. I'll try to do the same, next Photokina (no promises!). Ironically if I have the mind do a more thorough report I'll surely bring along a digital camera to make photographs and post immediately on this forum. In fact, the Photokina press office is equipped with computers which are hooked-up online, so it's even possible to make photographs and write news to send to y'all within minutes of seeing the latest stuff!

I'll wait for my satellite-dish backpack to arrive, though, so I can send news directly from the convention floor. (second thought, perhaps the convention floor is already covered by WiFi ... Roger Hicks ((you there, Rog?)) would know more about this than I).

Interesting scenario, by the way. I wouldn't be surprised if this method of news gathering & news dissemination becomes a norm someday soon. I guess we're pretty close to it already.

Meanwhile, for a more complete report, look for Roger's, wherever it's due to appear, as he has as usual thoroughly scoured Photokina for the juiciest tidbits of info .. and maybe even a little gossip! (Ahem .. I mean confirmed stories).

Best,

Christopher

Maine-iac · Oct 7, 2006

Ted Forbes said:
I heard a rumor that there's been an announcement at Photokina that AGFA has been taken over and will be producing film again.

Anyone able to verify this? No info on the AGFA site at this point.

Can't verify any rumors. I did write to Simon at Ilford, however, and received a reply from him that I think is interesting. Being a rabid Agfa MCC Classic fan, I asked Simon if Ilford might not be able to achieve a similar look by marrying their MGWarmtone emulsion to a brighter white base, similar to that used by Agfa or to their own MGFB.

He replied that obviously Ilford could do this, but doubted whether there would be enough of a market to warrant it. Maybe if Ilford heard from all the bummed Agfa MCC fans out there, they'd rethink the matter. IMO their Warmtone emulsion is beautiful; but the paper base is too yellow for many subjects. It was that combination of warm emulsion/cool base that made Agfa such an outstanding choice for nearly any subject. And it could be warmed or cooled even further with choice of developer and/or toner.

Larry

Photo Engineer · Oct 7, 2006

Just as a side note to all of this, I'm wondering how "Agfa" could be started up again after the auction of their US and German assets.

Having the formulas is one thing, but having the plant and people to make them is another. Or having the people is nice, but no plant or formulas would be a real stumbling block.

Therefore, reviving a 'real' Agfa product may be very difficult given the present circumstances. IDK, who has what or what the status of any of this is either.

If someone purchased the plant and formulas, then they would be a long way along to being able to revive the products, but without that, it would be a long haul and gamble to rely on a given product. I would guess that the revived products would be good, but would be rather 'ersatz', and I don't mean that in any bad way or as a criticism, but I'm sure that the real enthusiasts for Agfa products would see the differences.

PE

Ian Grant · Oct 7, 2006

Maine-iac said:
marrying their MGWarmtone emulsion to a brighter white base, similar to that used by Agfa or to their own MGFB.

He replied that obviously Ilford could do this, but doubted whether there would be enough of a market to warrant it. Maybe if Ilford heard from all the bummed Agfa MCC fans out there, they'd rethink the matter.
Larry

Excellent point Larry

At Focus on Imaging this year (UK trade show) I looked closely at Ilford's Warm Tone paper again but I just don't like its base colour. I began using Agfa Record Rapid (Portriga) 20 years ago progressing to Agfa MCC, at the time Ilford made no warm tone papers.

I looked hard at what I would use instead and only one warm tone paper met my requirements - Forte Polywarmtone, also sold as Berger & Classic Arts etc.

Both Kentmere & Ilfords warm toned papers are excellent but just were not quite what I want.

It has been posted elsewhere on this website that J&C have an interest in setting up a new coating facility, for film & paper
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Perhaps this is what has started a rumour of Agfa materials becoming available again. I mean the fact that coating machinery has been acquired, most probably from Agfa, rather than John's post on APUG

Ian

Ted Forbes · Oct 7, 2006

Well, the source here I would consider not reliable and kind of a joke actually, but here's the link:

http://www.lomography.com/news/news2.php?find=agfa&Submit=GO

:confused:

I was at the Photokina today and I found out that the complete Agfa business has been taken over and is COMPLETELY running again!
I'm sure some of you already knew this but this is to everyone who didn't know it yet. Fresh Agfa products are on the way!

Maine-iac · Oct 8, 2006

Ian Grant said:
I looked hard at what I would use instead and only one warm tone paper met my requirements - Forte Polywarmtone, also sold as Berger & Classic Arts etc.

Ian

I've found the same thing true for me as well. The Forte/Berger warmtone is the nearest I've found to the Agfa MCC look-- not quite there, but pretty close. I agree with you about the Ilford Warmtone. Great emulsion, but the base is too yellowish for most of my subjects. Certain things work well with it, e.g. portraits and some still lifes, but most outdoor scenes don't work as well.

Larry

Ian Grant · Oct 8, 2006

Surprisingly Larry I've actually found the Forte paper to be better than the Agfa papers.

More like a warmtone version of the early Ilford Gallery, longer tonal range, great highlights and great shadow detail.

ian

Maine-iac said:
I've found the same thing true for me as well. The Forte/Berger warmtone is the nearest I've found to the Agfa MCC look-- not quite there, but pretty close. I agree with you about the Ilford Warmtone. Great emulsion, but the base is too yellowish for most of my subjects. Certain things work well with it, e.g. portraits and some still lifes, but most outdoor scenes don't work as well.

Larry

Brac · Oct 17, 2006

Ted Forbes said:
Well, the source here I would consider not reliable and kind of a joke actually, but here's the link:

http://www.lomography.com/news/news2.php?find=agfa&Submit=GO

:confused:

The source is possibly getting confused because the bit of Agfa-Gavaert in Belgium seems to survive as a manufacturer of specialist professional films and as a contractor to people like Maco/Rollei (according to some threads on here).

What is not beyond doubt is that Agfa Photo's equipment & remaining production materials were sold off as is normal when any company goes into liquidation. There being a duty on the liquidators to sell off the assets to pay creditors. Some of the equipment was acquired by other manufacturers but where the rest went I don't know, possibly it was melted down as scrap metal.

It seems extremely unlikely that anyone would have the capital to re-equip to start manufacturing again and the risk would be enormous especially as many people have switched to other products. Also there would be the problem of obtaining a right to use the Agfa trademark plus presumably still profitable bits like chemicals & film base manufacture have already been sold off to others. It all sounds like wishful thinking to me which is sad but we need to be realistic.

Bromo33333 · Oct 17, 2006

Brac said:
It seems extremely unlikely that anyone would have the capital to re-equip to start manufacturing again and the risk would be enormous especially as many people have switched to other products. Also there would be the problem of obtaining a right to use the Agfa trademark plus presumably still profitable bits like chemicals & film base manufacture have already been sold off to others. It all sounds like wishful thinking to me which is sad but we need to be realistic.

My fantasy: The liquidators auctioned it on eBay - and a group of folks buy it and set it up to make "peudo-Agfa" film. Wildly successful, they allied with Ilford and others, cause digital to go obsolete and everyone sells off their digital cameras because they are "going analog."....

Black Dog · Oct 18, 2006

While I'm gutted that APX is no more, there are other equally lovely films out there and (photographic) life does go on-there are brighter sides to life and I know because I've seen them ....

Changeling1 · Oct 18, 2006

Black Dog said:
While I'm gutted that APX is no more, there are other equally lovely films out there and (photographic) life does go on-there are brighter sides to life and I know because I've seen them ....

And we can always pack our bags and head for the misty mountains....

fparnold · Oct 24, 2006

Changeling1 said:
And we can always pack our bags and head for the misty mountains....

To meet the same fate as APX; eaten by goblins.

Petzi · Oct 24, 2006

Black Dog said:
While I'm gutted that APX is no more,...

I can deliver any quantity of 35mm APX 100 and 400 to your house within a few days.

Black Dog · Oct 25, 2006

Alas I'm an MF shooter-but if I suffer really bad withdrawal symptoms.....

Petzi · Oct 25, 2006

Black Dog said:
Alas I'm an MF shooter-but if I suffer really bad withdrawal symptoms.....

I get a one time delivery of about 100 rolls APX 100 120 soon, if you want some, drop me a pm. Perhaps if you used them slowly, they could mitigate the withdrawal.

firecracker · Oct 30, 2006

What I know is that a small importer in Japan called Grace is supposedly starting to sell the new packaged Agfa paper in a month or two produced by Maco.

But from what I'm reading in this thread, I'm getting confused.

Is Maco really doing (or not doing) any new business with the old Agfa paper?

Petzi · Oct 30, 2006

firecracker said:
Is Maco really doing (or not doing) any new business with the old Agfa paper?

They are still selling the Agfa paper stock that was produced before Agfa shut down their paper coating plant. Maco bought most of Agfa's b/w paper stock. Some of that came in large rolls, Maco are having them converted to sheets.

Black Dog · Oct 31, 2006

Silverprint still have a big pile of Agfa MCC FYI.

AGFA Rumor

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