Agfa Portriga

cirwin2010 · Nov 10, 2021

Unexpectedly I was gifted some frozen Agfa Portriga (grade 3) paper. I don't know much about this paper other than people seemed to have really liked it and that it disappeared with the cadmium ban.

What should I know about this paper and what is it best suited for? I only have limited stock so I want to make the most of it.

lecarp · Nov 10, 2021

Is it 118 or 111 Portriga?

cirwin2010 · Nov 10, 2021

lecarp said:
Is it 118 or 111 Portriga?

I do not know. They were put in a different box. Are those different finishes?

Buzz-01 · Nov 10, 2021

Possibly you've already done so, but I'd advise to do a fog test first.
I was recently given two boxes of 50x and 3 packs of 10x Portriga-speed 12x16" which was stored in a refrigerator.
That's the RC variant of this paper.
Tested one sheet from the middle of every pack, all were unfortunately heavily fogged, beyond normal use.
I've bought some Benzotriazole (Moersch Restrainer) but haven't tested with that yet.

Hopefully you'll have more luck!

faberryman · Nov 10, 2021

cirwin2010 said:
Unexpectedly I was gifted some frozen Agfa Portriga (grade 3) paper. I don't know much about this paper other than people seemed to have really liked it and that it disappeared with the cadmium ban.

What should I know about this paper and what is it best suited for? I only have limited stock so I want to make the most of it.

I have not used it since the 1970s. It has brown tone blacks but the base and highlights are white not cream. I hope it is still good. If so, you will miss it when it is gone.

cirwin2010 · Nov 10, 2021

Buzz-01 said:
Possibly you've already done so, but I'd advise to do a fog test first.
I was recently given two boxes of 50x and 3 packs of 10x Portriga-speed 12x16" which was stored in a refrigerator.
That's the RC variant of this paper.
Tested one sheet from the middle of every pack, all were unfortunately heavily fogged, beyond normal use.
I've bought some Benzotriazole (Moersch Restrainer) but haven't tested with that yet.

Hopefully you'll have more luck!

I do intend to perform a fog test next print session.

I use amber safe lights in my darkroom. Is this paper compatible with amber or will I need red lights?

koraks · Nov 10, 2021

Buzz-01 said:
That's the RC variant of this paper.

All (Agfa/otherwise) RC papers of comparable vintages I've tried were fogged beyond usability. All Agfa FB papers from the 1980s/1990s I've been able to sample printed cleanly.

Lachlan Young · Nov 10, 2021

cirwin2010 said:
and that it disappeared with the cadmium ban.

I'd be extremely wary of that claim. Cd seems to have largely been removed in the 1970s, but plenty of warmtone papers appear to have used Lead salts (Lead Nitrate in the case of Portriga Rapid's direct ancestor) to deliver a warmer tone. The era of withdrawal correlates much more closely with regulatory oversight in that regard - and the (relative) sales levels probably dissuaded Agfa from doing the R&D that would allow the circumvention of the problem (ie moving it to modern emulsion making techniques).

Buzz-01 · Nov 10, 2021

koraks said:
All (Agfa/otherwise) RC papers of comparable vintages I've tried were fogged beyond usability. All Agfa FB papers from the 1980s/1990s I've been able to sample printed cleanly.

That sounds promising. My only Agfa FB experience is with one pack of MCC, which was also fogged beyond usablility.

AgX · Nov 10, 2021

lecarp said:
Is it 118 or 111 Portriga?

cirwin2010 said:
Are those different finishes?

Type 118 is embossed.

Paul Howell · Nov 10, 2021

I've been given or bought from ebay packs of Agfa, both protriga and bravia, all were fogged. The closes to vintage Agfa I've found is Slavich, warm and neutral tone.

gone · Nov 10, 2021

Is there a ban on cadmium? Artists paints are full of it here in the U.S. (we're the world's largest producer of it), along w/ other things. I know as a painter, cadmium is just what you want for bright, vibrant colors and longevity. For murders, cadmium is a dependable but slow poison.

But, this is in powder form. Mixed w/ oils, watercolors, whatever, it's safe unless you don't know which end of the paint brush to hold in your mouth.
https://www.danschultzfineart.com/is-cadmium-paint-toxic/

AgX · Nov 10, 2021

In the EU banning of Cadmium started in 1988, from then on successively regulations have been installed on different products so far.

Lachlan Young · Nov 10, 2021

AgX said:
In the EU banning of Cadmium started in 1988, from then on successively regulations have been installed on different products so far.

What has never been clear is at what junctures Agfa revised the Portriga Rapid/ Record Rapid (just to really mess with people's minds there was a near contact speed Portriga & Record set of papers too until the 1960s) emulsions - reasonable estimates of the advent of the end of active gelatins & arrival of full chemical sensitisation (early 1950s) and washed emulsions (coating on RC base) are feasible, but anecdotal accounts seem to suggest that there were several emulsion revisions between the 1970s and 1990s, with final withdrawal of Record Rapid around the early 2000s (MCC in 118 finish seems to have been used to kill off Portriga Rapid).

jvo · Nov 10, 2021

portriga - sigh! you lucky dog!!!!

AgX · Nov 11, 2021

cirwin2010 said:
What is it best suited for?

I guess Agfa's naming of this paper gives a hint.

removedacct1 · Nov 11, 2021

I have some packages of Portriga Rapid that were given to me, and have used them sparingly. In spite of their age, they printed beautifully. I also have some RC Portriga Speed, and it’s useless: badly fogged.
You’ll have to try it out and see how it performs. It might be treasure, or it might be trash.
What is it best suited for? That’s really up to you. It has a unique tonal curve and color that lends itself to more “vintage” looking imagery, but only you can decide how to use it.

DREW WILEY · Nov 12, 2021

I was just looking at one of my old prints on Portriga. It could certainly be a beautiful paper, but was discontinued long ago. I be surprised if any remnants are still usable.

DREW WILEY · Nov 12, 2021

momus - where have you been the past half century? Cadmium in other than tiny quantities too small for industrial usage has been banned in the US ever since the mid-60's. The EU gives a small exemption for small batch artist pigment manufacture only, but is otherwise on a total ban mode. Too bad, because a system was devised in the EU to vacuum-deposit cadmium pigments with clear titanium (much like a lens coating), making these particles physiologically inert if accidentally ingested; but the law against acquiring or processing sufficient amounts of cadmium to begin with makes its commercially and financially unfeasible. And it really is hazardous. I've known seriously messed up painters who smeared cadmium pigments with their fingers. And in this area there were once industrial paint factories where now it's illegal to even drill a hole in asphalt of concrete without a special permit because there's so much cadmium, lead, and chromium capped off in the soil underneath. I've had several friends die prematurely due to working in those kinds of places, or in shipyards where such coatings were applied.

And no - it's not safe even if you get a little on your paws, like that artist pigment link states. A little here, a little there.... it all adds up, just like lead poisoning. And just like darkroom work, there is a logical reason disposable nitrile gloves were invented.

AgX · Nov 12, 2021

DREW WILEY said:
momus - where have you been the past half century? Cadmium in other than tiny quantities too small for industrial usage has been banned in the US ever since the mid-60's.

In the EU banning started much later and evolved gradually.

Strange enough no one speaks of our photoresistors. Banned too...

DREW WILEY · Nov 12, 2021

Here the big worry is the shoreline. It's far more logical to cap off hazardous waste than to disturb it in an urban environment, or risk air being contaminated trying to relocate it. And when removal is involved, it can take billions of dollars of Superfund site money, with serious risk to employees and adjacent neighborhoods. And a number of those sites are right along the shore for shipping purposes during a more naive era, or in relation to past military bases, which had little respect for human health. And now with sea level rise rapidly becoming a more and more serious issue, some of those old deposit caps are already beginning to get eroded at the edges. Seals and waterfowl in the vicinity are already exhibiting weird cancers and mutations; fish are becoming inedible. Not a good sign.

Christiaan Phleger · Nov 13, 2021

Ah the passing of an age...
I was lucky enough in my younger photo days to have a fellow photographer who printed almost everything on Portriga. It was his influence that made me tru and use a small bit of it, and I sure wish I had made a few more prints. I recall processing in Selctol-Soft and Bromophen, and doing a light tone with Kodak Brown Toner. Exquisite with skin tones and simply dreamy with highlights and high key images. I also recall the distinctive Portriga smell when in the developer; in retrospect and in context of the last post perhaps it was better that I did as little as I did. I was looking for a paper to base my wedding film clients on and while I loved the look, at the time it was getting quite difficult to get a good supply of fresh Portiga and the wastage was too high from mottling on older batches. I settled on the at the time first version Ilford Warmtone FB which I could get a good supply of. The other photographer had made an impressive body of work with it, but he had standardized on Portriga at least 10 years before I followed and got the good years of many prints. I think I still have a couple of 11x14 packs under the house..I wonder.

tezzasmall · Nov 13, 2021

Interestingly, there is a seller on eBay that sells various versions of cadmium, including powder. How is this possible if it is banned?:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...tore_name=snauckeelements&_oac=1&_nkw=cadmium

Terry S

Don_ih · Nov 13, 2021

Cadmium is banned in the EU in plastics and jewelry. It's still acceptable to use in poison.

AgX · Nov 13, 2021

It is banned to be used within most products, but not as pure substance. The whole materials restriction seems not coherent.

For instant to trade an electronic item with just 6 solder points (internal wiring including switch) this tiny solder joints must be made from lead free solder. The same time you are allowed to cover all your roof with lead sheeting, which even will make lead salts (from surface corrosion go into the sewage).
To be fair, many houses here emit vatious toxic materials from their facades. And one may argue that the he lead salt emission from roofs is negligable against any solder vapour. Same for cadmium pigments.

Agfa Portriga

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