Agfa-photo bankrupt

edz · May 27, 2005

Its has just been announced on the radio here (Munich, Germany) that Agfa-Photo has filed for protection from its creditors. They are not able to make payroll. Yesterday was a holliday here. According to the early reports on the radio they expect several 1000 jobs to be potentially cut.

Jorge · May 27, 2005

bummer, I guess the contest is on the way out too.....you all better stock on Rodinal.....

argus · May 27, 2005

:-(

/running to the shop right now.

Could it be held in a freezer without consequenses (except for food contamination)?

G

john_s · May 27, 2005

I can live without Rodinal. But the MCC paper is another story. NOT HAPPY.

Fotohuis · May 27, 2005

It is sad news but not really unexpected.

Agfa Photo should cut down more costs and production estimated on a shrinking market.

Bye the way: Here is the official announcement http://www.handelsblatt.com/pshb/fn/relhbi/sfn/buildhbi/cn/GoArt!200012,200038,904307/index.html

Best regards,

Robert

Phil Woodney · May 27, 2005

Thanks for the heads-up! Just ordered 40 rolls of APX100.

Phil

TPPhotog · May 27, 2005

Yep it's a bummer but at least they tried. Time to stock up on Rodinal and after that it looks like I'll have to either make my own or go back to D-76. As is life

There again there was another soup that Les mentioned here and did a review of for B&W Photographer, can't remember which one now I'll have to look back through the mags.

medform-norm · May 27, 2005

TPPhotog said:
Yep it's a bummer but at least they tried. Time to stock up on Rodinal and after that it looks like I'll have to either make my own or go back to D-76. As is life

There again there was another soup that Les mentioned here and did a review of for B&W Photographer, can't remember which one now I'll have to look back through the mags.

Oh no, no more Agfa Scala b&w slide material....or development! A tragedy. I should be off to by a new freezer and stock it up with Agfa stuff. Really liked the RSX color slide film as well...

Norm

colrehogan · May 27, 2005

So we can't get our current stock of Scala developed? Bummer!

TPPhotog · May 27, 2005

medform-norm said:
Oh no, no more Agfa Scala b&w slide material....or development! A tragedy. I should be off to by a new freezer and stock it up with Agfa stuff. Really liked the RSX color slide film as well...

Norm

I'm not sure if it was good or bad for our photography but with the problems Agfa and Ilford had many of us tried alternatives to what we had been using for years. Better a progression into other materials if we really had to rather than a big bang.

The result is that some of us found we prefered alternative materials. Where I used to only use HP5+ to use at 400 to 1600, I now find that I really like Tri-X. So as a result instead of buying loads of HP5+, I split the purchase into HP5+ and Tri-X for different uses.

I know of others that found they liked alternative materials to the Agfa ones they had used lovingly over the years.

I think the same applies to many others as well. So I suspect that Agfa and Ilford have lost the market share they had before the problems

FrankB · May 27, 2005

Dire news. Okay, it's not very good for us, but for anyone working at Agfa...

All the very best to the staff and their families. I hope some good somehow comes out of this for you.

I understand that the formula for Rodinal is fairly well known. With Agfa out of the frame is it possible that someone else will start to produce it?

David A. Goldfarb · May 27, 2005

Isn't Efke or someone already manufacturing R09, based on an older Rodinal formula?

modafoto · May 27, 2005

At least I have 8 bottles left...When they are gone I have to go the XTOL way...

fotophox · May 27, 2005

Are they actually going out of business, or (at this stage) filing for protection? No idea what the laws are like in Germany, but in the USA there's a difference between Chapter 7 bankrupcy, which means the end of the company, and Chapter 11, which may be rescue. Correct me if I'm wrong.

noseoil · May 27, 2005

We'll have to wait and see which type of filing it is and if they are able to bounce back like Ilford did.

I would think that it might a good time for a shift to Pyrocat and minimal agitation, not Rodinal, but it is very sharp. tim

Tom Stanworth · May 27, 2005

I think there are a few rodinal like devs out there made in eastern europe. I think some are available from retrophotographic in the UK - Original Adox brews I think. Moersch might even do some too.

APX100 would be very sad indeed. FP4 plus just is not the same.

Tom

Fotohuis · May 27, 2005

R09 is comming from Calbe Chemie (former Eastern Germany).

Alternative for Scala on 35 mm format will be the Fomapan R100 B&W slidefilm. A Foma developerkit is also available for this film (and development of also Scala).

Alternatives for APX100: FP4+, Fomapan 100, Acros, ....

Looking at the global market: Agfa-Photo must be reduced at a size and amount of employees like Ilford did. The question even rises if there is enough space on the analog film market.

ChrisC · May 27, 2005

I think this is my fault, guys. I bought my first bottle of Rodinal last weekend, and was planning on opening it tomorrow to try out

Horrible news, both for fans of their products and staff working there. Hopefully they work their way through it like Ilford did. I think I might have to go buy some of the remaining stock the local store has tomorrow.

David H. Bebbington · May 27, 2005

fotophox said:
Are they actually going out of business, or (at this stage) filing for protection? No idea what the laws are like in Germany, but in the USA there's a difference between Chapter 7 bankrupcy, which means the end of the company, and Chapter 11, which may be rescue. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The report is vague on details:
<<Das Amtsgericht Köln hat ein vorläufiges Insolvenzverfahren eingeleitet. Der Kölner Anwalt Andreas Ringstmeier ist zum vorläufigen Insolvenzverwalter bestellt worden. Er muss nun prüfen, ob Agfa noch eine Chance hat zu überleben.>>
There are no figures for assets versus liabilities - the article simply says that a provisional insolvency process has been initiated, that an administrator has been appointed and that he is exploring ways by which Afga could survive. This has been done by the Cologne District Court, presumably in response to a petition by creditors.

gareth harper · May 27, 2005

Sad news indeed. Bad news for the employees, a horrible situation to be in.

We need to wait and see what happens. If Agfa as a whole does go down, then hopefully somebody will buy up the profitable bits.

I'd be very surprised if somebody didn't pick up the Rodinal name considering it's cult status. I'm also sure some of the eastern manufactueres would love some of the Agfa lines and products.

But lets hope that a new Agfa emerges from the ashes of the old.

Mmmm, just as I was starting to get a taste for APX100.

dschneller · May 27, 2005

Filing for Creditor Protection is far from closing up shop. Take heart, Ilford re-emerged out of the process. Personally I have worked for a company that has been through CCAA, although CCAA may be different from what Agfa will face, and it certainly is one way to shed a substantial amount of debt.

Dave

JHannon · May 27, 2005

I can see Morten and Tony (TPPhotog) in a shopping cart battle over the last bottle of Rodinal.

At least Photographers' Formulary is making Rodinal kits so the developer won't be going anywhere. If this does happen, I will miss the APX 100 (120) like the 4X5 version. Reasonable price and I liked the look with Rodinal.

Regards,
John

Flotsam · May 27, 2005

Well, You can't say that I didn't warn you.

I wrote this in a thread that I started a couple of weeks ago asking for opinions on Agfa MC 111 :

Thanks to all for the excellent input. I'll definitely try a box based on what I have read here.

Of course you realize that if I decide that I like it and start to use it exclusively, it will inevitably be quickly discontinued and pulled from the market.

Bob Carnie · May 27, 2005

I agree with dave schneller
this will take time and they will still be selling paper and chemicals in the future.
I met one of the Vice Presidents of Agfa product division , about 7 years ago and was amazed to find out he did not know what a Platinum print was. I am supprised it took so long for Agfa to be hurting.

Thilo Schmid · May 27, 2005

fotophox said:
No idea what the laws are like in Germany, but in the USA there's a difference between Chapter 7 bankrupcy, which means the end of the company, and Chapter 11, which may be rescue.

There are no differnt types of bankrupty in Germany. There are only different procedures for natural and legal persons. After the court has determined Insolvency, the primary issue is to protect outstanding trade depts. It is unlikely that the business continues, if no additional investor appears. It is a rare case that a company in this order of magnitude recovers from Insolvency. It is more likely that a rescue company is founded in which the immaterial assets (Trademarks, Patents, etc.) continue to live somehow. Sad, but it seems that Agfa-Gevaert has made the right descision to sell the film and paper business last year.

Agfa-photo bankrupt

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