AGFA MCC - Best today's alternative?

Paul Howell · Sep 24, 2022

ags2mikon said:
Thank you Paul I will give that a try. How would you compare Agfa MCC to Fomabrom?

The last Agfa I used as Brovia, graded. Closest was Slavich which is no longer available in the U.S, what with sanctions don't know if it can be found in the E.U.

DREW WILEY · Sep 24, 2022

MCC had its own seemingly inescapable slightly purplish tonality, which I personally found restrictive. Ilford MGWT is a lot more flexible, or you could try the Bergger equivalent. Bergger NB can be coaxed either direction - warm or cold - depending on the choice of developer plus final toning. All of these are obviously pricey premium papers.

Lachlan Young · Sep 24, 2022

haliderollei said:
I can't seem to get those *glowing* midtones and highlights from the Ilford stuff.

Essentially this is because at middling contrasts, MCC can deliver slightly sharper toe shapes grade-for-grade than some Ilford materials used at the same filtration - but those Ilford materials may have sharper shoulders - and be punchier overall at the higher grades. You'll be best served by doing some characteristic curve comparisons - and MCC will probably return as soon as Adox can spare people in their finishing department from servicing the currently insatiable gaping maw of the colour neg market.

koraks · Sep 24, 2022

Paul Howell said:
Closest was Slavich which is no longer available in the U.S, what with sanctions don't know if it can be found in the E.U

AFAIK they're located in Lithuania and there are evidently no sanctions against Lithuania in the E.U. since it's a member state. I've yet to meet anyone in person who uses their papers, though. Despite a somewhat mythical aura, they're not very popular around here, it seems. In any case, it's a good option to look into for OP. They retail through Lithuania-based Geola for non-German European countries (Germany has its own detail channel).

AgX · Sep 24, 2022

koraks said:
AFAIK they're located in Lithuania and there are evidently no sanctions against Lithuania in the E.U. since it's a member state.

Slavich is a russian manufacturer, located in Jaroslawl state.

They got a dealer, mainly for their holographic materials, which are located in Lithuania.

haliderollei · Sep 25, 2022

Lachlan Young said:
Essentially this is because at middling contrasts, MCC can deliver slightly sharper toe shapes grade-for-grade than some Ilford materials used at the same filtration - but those Ilford materials may have sharper shoulders - and be punchier overall at the higher grades. You'll be best served by doing some characteristic curve comparisons - and MCC will probably return as soon as Adox can spare people in their finishing department from servicing the currently insatiable gaping maw of the colour neg market.

Thank you for this input. Would it be possible to somehow match the "curves" of the Ilford stuff to the Agfa stuff?

Lachlan Young · Sep 25, 2022

haliderollei said:
Would it be possible to somehow match the "curves" of the Ilford stuff to the Agfa stuff?

Possibly - up to a point. Effectively the differences seem to add up to a slightly sharper toe and slightly softer shoulder on MCC at around G2-3. Which Ilford paper are you trying to compare - and what developer are you using?

haliderollei · Sep 26, 2022

Lachlan Young said:
Possibly - up to a point. Effectively the differences seem to add up to a slightly sharper toe and slightly softer shoulder on MCC at around G2-3. Which Ilford paper are you trying to compare - and what developer are you using?

Straight Dektol

haliderollei · Sep 26, 2022

Lachlan Young said:
Possibly - up to a point. Effectively the differences seem to add up to a slightly sharper toe and slightly softer shoulder on MCC at around G2-3. Which Ilford paper are you trying to compare - and what developer are you using?

Trying the MG Classic glossy FB stuff btw, havent tried the warmtone stuff just yet.

DREW WILEY · Sep 26, 2022

Classic if a fine product, but not in the same league of richness as either MGWT or Bergger. And you need to get beyond basic Dektol to get the most out of any of these, especially when it comes to final image tone. I recommend switching to the old Ansco 130 glycin formula, concerning which there are numerous past threads.

Lachlan Young · Sep 26, 2022

haliderollei said:
Straight Dektol

Stock solution strength rather than the usual 1+2? So you're going to be getting slightly contrastier results than people might be assuming.

haliderollei said:
Trying the MG Classic glossy FB stuff btw, havent tried the warmtone stuff just yet.

I'd try the following: see what a pre-flash does to a higher grade; see what an over-threshold flash/ fog does to an underlying print at a higher grade (diffusion under lens is easy/ pragmatic way - and obviously, paper must be in easel/ masked for this), possibly dodged & burnt; try diluting the Dektol to 1+4 - and possibly Ansco 120 (the Metol/ sulphite/ carbonate/ bromide one - not 130 or Ansel Adams' variant) - possibly adjusting the restrainers/ type of restrainer; try all of the above on MGC, MGWT, Bergger's warmtone paper and graded Fomabrom in the 'C' grade form; and possibly try masking the neg (not hard, contrary to popular fears and hand-wringing, doesn't require special equipment and is pretty quick to try). Far too often people are trying to match aspects of a material only they can perceive (ie their eyes are deceiving them into seeing what they want to see), not what the audience sees - in other words, people are often far too rigid in procedure, and struggle to work out how to get to a usefully equivalent end point, because it may require them to question the narrowly (ideological) doctrines of technique/ art they demand everyone comply with.

DREW WILEY · Sep 26, 2022

No, I just made a typo which I since corrected to 130, Lachlan. AA's tweak doubled the amount of hydroquinone, so did lend a bit of that obnoxious greenish cast which I associate with Dektol as well as most of his prints. That can be cooled neutral somewhat by substituting benzotriazole for the KBr at 1/10th gram wt; but then you end up with just another cold tone developer with better shadow separation than Dektol, but at the expense of much else that makes 130 special. So other than briefly experimenting, I never did adopt AA's personal tweak.
If somebody needs something pre-mixed, the Formulary's BW65 does provide a similar look to 130.

I didn't especially like the inevitable brown-purplish tone of MCC either, except for a very limited number of my negs. MGWT and Bergger papers give me way more flexibility in that respect. I'm very conscious of final image color, and fine-tune it image to image as needed.

Being someone especially well equipped in both gear and experience for supplemental masking, I wouldn't recommend that route until simpler options are first explored, making the most out of film development per se, along with given combinations of specific VC papers and their potential developers first, and then post-toning refinements.

otto.f · Oct 4, 2022

I was addicted to AGFA MCC too and also found Bergger's papers the best at the moment, both CB and NB, and the CB is for me the most subtle brown-black at this quality level, Ilford being too brown for me

AGFA MCC - Best today's alternative?

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