AGFA MCC - Best today's alternative?

haliderollei · Sep 23, 2022

Hi there,

As the title states, which paper do you guys think most closely resembles the old Agfa MCC paper that is still produced today? I've gave up hope that Adox MCC is ever going to be released again and I've just gone trough my last box.

Looking for perspectives.

Thank you.

removedacct3 · Sep 23, 2022

According to the datasheet of the Adox version of this paper. MCC should able to reach a dmax of 2.3 or thereabout. I know only one paper that is able to reach that level: Ilford MG Fiber. I would say that your options are limited to start with and if deep, deep blacks are your thing your options are very limited.

haliderollei · Sep 23, 2022

MrclSchprs said:
According to the datasheet of the Adox version of this paper. MCC should able to reach a dmax of 2.3 or thereabout. I know only one paper that is able to reach that level: Ilford MG Fiber. I would say that your options are limited to start with and if deep, deep blacks are your thing your options are very limited.

Ah it's not necessarily the DMAX anything it's almost impossible to discern between 2.1 and 2.3, something about the highlights and midtones that was amazing about AGFA that I would love to recreate.

Arthurwg · Sep 23, 2022

I also loved Agfa MCC. I have several framed 18"x18" prints that I love. They are just beautiful, with subtle gradations, deep blacks and wonderful highlights. Still, Ilford MG is not a bad paper.

haliderollei · Sep 23, 2022

Arthurwg said:
I also loved Agfa MCC. I have several framed 18"x18" prints that I love. They are just beautiful, with subtle gradations, deep blacks and wonderful highlights. Still, Ilford MG is not a bad paper.

Thank you for the insight, have you ever come close to Agfa? Can the Ilford stuff match it even?

koraks · Sep 23, 2022

If you start by translating the things you like about the Agfa paper into objective criteria, you might then be able to approximate a best match based on those. If it's going to be one of those "you can't capture magic into words" kinds of things, then any guess is as legitimate as the next one and you'll just collect personal favorites of posters.

Btw, I wouldn't be too pessimistic about Adox MCC. It'll turn up again in due course. It is indeed a very nice paper, I can attest to this. Then again, many papers are very nice.

ags2mikon · Sep 23, 2022

Well I used to use kodak medalist, RIP. Agfa brovira, RIP. Mitsubishi gekko, RIP. Agfa/Adox MCC, RIP. Now Ilford MG. I miss the the Agfa MCC and MCP. When developed in Ansco 130 it was really good. The Ilford is different and I think it will be okay. It is colder than the Agfa/Adox. But your eyes and my eyes are different so just try it with an open mind and go from there.

GregY · Sep 23, 2022

The choices have become fewer and fewer. It's almost a case of what paper can you get. I never warmed up to MCC, but Forte Polygrade was one of my favourites, and was just given a few boxes from the darkroom of a photographer who recently passed away. I'd say you pretty much have to make exposure/development adjustments in the film and find a paper developer that gets you closest to the results you like.

miha · Sep 23, 2022

You'll gave to try the little papers we are left with by yourself. I would suggest to start with a pack of Fomabrom Variant 111.

ags2mikon · Sep 23, 2022

GregY said:
The choices have become fewer and fewer. It's almost a case of what paper can you get. I never warmed up to MCC, but Forte Polygrade was one of my favourites, and was just given a few boxes from the darkroom of a photographer who recently passed away. I'd say you pretty much have to make exposure/development adjustments in the film and find a paper developer that gets you closest to the results you like.

This is so true. The only person that will most likely notice the difference is you the the person that made the print. I have had many photographers look at my prints and not one has said to me I see you used XYZ paper and ABC developer. If only you had used...

Arthurwg · Sep 23, 2022

One thing I can say about MCC, it was much more fragile than today's more robust Ilford.

haliderollei · Sep 23, 2022

Arthurwg said:
One thing I can say about MCC, it was much more fragile than today's more robust Ilford.

Might be true indeed, and this might be very subjective and stupid but I can't seem to get those *glowing* midtones and highlights from the Ilford stuff.

koraks · Sep 23, 2022

Have you tried replicating some MCC prints (using the same negatives obviously) on e.g. Ilford and then actually analyze the difference between them? This might give you a handle on what to look for in a different paper - or see if you can come closer to the look you want by tweaking processing.

Evidently, there's not all that much to choose from when it comes to papers today. Ilford and Foma have been mentioned; there's of course also Bergger, which might be of interest to you. I wouldn't know what to suggest, as I don't know what '*glowing* midtones and highlights' means to you. It might be in part about the toe of the curve, which may even differ across different grades on the same paper, and there are certainly ways to manipulate this part of a paper curve to an extent. It's really a stab in the dark, though. But trying to uncover this kind of information could help you decide how to approximate your desired results.

ags2mikon · Sep 23, 2022

I just checked B&H and freestyle. Foma, Harmon or Bergger. Like the old game show lets make a deal. Door number 1 door number 2 or door number 3.

haliderollei · Sep 23, 2022

I've heard someone mention that actually Foma paper machines are actually AGFA made

haliderollei · Sep 23, 2022

koraks said:
Have you tried replicating some MCC prints (using the same negatives obviously) on e.g. Ilford and then actually analyze the difference between them? This might give you a handle on what to look for in a different paper - or see if you can come closer to the look you want by tweaking processing.

Evidently, there's not all that much to choose from when it comes to papers today. Ilford and Foma have been mentioned; there's of course also Bergger, which might be of interest to you. I wouldn't know what to suggest, as I don't know what '*glowing* midtones and highlights' means to you. It might be in part about the toe of the curve, which may even differ across different grades on the same paper, and there are certainly ways to manipulate this part of a paper curve to an extent. It's really a stab in the dark, though. But trying to uncover this kind of information could help you decide how to approximate your desired results.

Very thoughtful answer, thank you.

ags2mikon · Sep 23, 2022

I have never used Foma papers. Last time I checked I would have to change to red safe lights and I don't have any. What is the deal on that?

Paul Howell · Sep 23, 2022

I use Foma with OC safelight, no issues with fogging. I keep my prints face down in the developer, out of habit, and make sure the safelights are turned towards the ceiling.

ags2mikon · Sep 23, 2022

Thank you Paul I will give that a try. How would you compare Agfa MCC to Fomabrom?

GregY · Sep 23, 2022

Foma, both warmtone & Variant iii are lovely papers... beautiful tonality ( I see more inherent contrast than in Ilford Classic or Cooltone, quicker emergence and seem to need shorter exposure time) I can't really compare with MCC since i didn't use much of it ( a couple of 100 sheets in 8x10 & 11x14) and i didn't get any spectacular results.

AZD · Sep 23, 2022

For as many different films as I’ve used in the past 3 years, I have only used one FB paper, Fomabrom 111 in Ethol LPD. I love the look and haven’t felt the need to try anything else. I almost bought into MCC just before it vanished. Probably better off with Foma as I didn’t have to change one it disappeared.

haliderollei · Sep 24, 2022

AZD said:
For as many different films as I’ve used in the past 3 years, I have only used one FB paper, Fomabrom 111 in Ethol LPD. I love the look and haven’t felt the need to try anything else. I almost bought into MCC just before it vanished. Probably better off with Foma as I didn’t have to change one it disappeared.

Lovely, do you have any prints I could look at online ?

AZD · Sep 24, 2022

I really don’t have anything online… Let me see what I can find and I’ll pm you.

haliderollei · Sep 24, 2022

AZD said:
I really don’t have anything online… Let me see what I can find and I’ll pm you.

Thank you

K-G · Sep 24, 2022

Both Berger CB ( warmtone ) and NB ( neutral ) are really excellent papers.

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AGFA MCC - Best today's alternative?

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