Agfa CT Precisa100 - total different ancestry ?

trendland · Jun 28, 2017

Hallo Everybody,
...yes it is an old theme but up to this
day I was convinced about having
Provia100F when I used this special
Agfa brand from Lupus Imaging.
Has anybody new information/experience with this film
in comparison to Fuji E6 films?
Most stated in the past : it is just Fujis Provia Film - but is this realy the truth?

There are infos from a source that may be wrong (Film table) but if it is true
Agfa CT Precisa is indeed :

Fuji Sensia 100 ( discontinued from Fuji since many many years)
And not the more expensive proffessional film Provia100F.
But this Provia emulsion is still avaible from fuji.
Sensia100 is a long time discontinued
fIlm.

What is your practice/experience and
opinion to this most cheapest slide
film today?

with regards

trendland · Jun 28, 2017

Hello Everybody,

a short update to this special concern.
There is a candidate (I've never heard about) Fuji Trebi100c.
It is a special japan market version.
But it it is to the Japan market exclusive it is a little unusual to export this version to make a Agfa Precisa substitude.
But it should not be absolute unpossible.
So there are 3 films from fuji one of this
should be the film you can by as Agfa Precisa - Fujichrome Provia100F
- Fujichrome Trebi 100c
- Fujichrome Sensia100

with regards

dmtnkl · Jun 28, 2017

hey, i haven't shot that much of precisa, but i have some experience with it over the last 2 years. I have observed the following:

- Canister code is the same as Provia 100F.

- I like it very much and the price is hard to beat. I think it does look like Provia 100F, but again i cannot be 100% sure. Maybe we can do some controlled testing, but i think it does not matter because:

- Film edges carry the code "R100". I get this to mean "Reversal 100", or to be more precise "Reversal Whatever 100". I think fuji has assigned some kind of generic character to it, and despite the fact that they may have a production run dedicated to it, they will not hesitate to press this code on whatever they have as surplus at any given moment. All other films have very distinctive edge codes. Of course this doesn't bother me at all, because all their slide films are top notch. However, this is only my interpretation, and may be quite far from reality.

- 2 years ago i shot one, only to notice some months later when cleaning a slide that the edge code was "RA", which is in fact Sensia 100. It also looked like Sensia 100, ie low contrast and smooth, and i was very excited about it as at the time Sensia was already discontinued and there were no options for low contrast slide film. Unfortunately, this pleasant surprise didn't occur again and the canister from the first was long gone after development, so i couldn't check its code.

- Another person at a well known forum mentions one time when the edge code was "RVP100", which is Velvia 100. Let me know if you want and i can look it up.

PS: Fujichrome R100 was an E4 (if i remember the process correctly) slide film that fuji produced during the 70s, but i doubt it has anything in common with precisa 100.

tomfrh · Jun 28, 2017

I recall Henning Serger saying he tested it and it's definitely provia 100F

George Mann · Jun 28, 2017

tomfrh said:
I recall Henning Serger saying he tested it and it's definitely provia 100F

It is either an older, coarser grained FUJI film stock, or one that consists of current runs that fail to meet specs.

tomfrh · Jun 28, 2017

George Mann said:
It is either an older, coarser grained FUJI film stock, or one that consists of current runs that fail to meet specs.

Interesting. I'd love to know the true story about this film.

Ricardo Miranda · Jun 29, 2017

tomfrh said:
I recall Henning Serger saying he tested it and it's definitely provia 100F

It is Provia 100 without the F, either RDP or RDPII.
Provia 100F is RDPIII.

trendland · Jun 29, 2017

dmtnkl said:
hey, i haven't shot that much of precisa, but i have some experience with it over the last 2 years. I have observed the following:

- Canister code is the same as Provia 100F.

- I like it very much and the price is hard to beat. I think it does look like Provia 100F, but again i cannot be 100% sure. Maybe we can do some controlled testing, but i think it does not matter because:

- Film edges carry the code "R100". I get this to mean "Reversal 100", or to be more precise "Reversal Whatever 100". I think fuji has assigned some kind of generic character to it, and despite the fact that they may have a production run dedicated to it, they will not hesitate to press this code on whatever they have as surplus at any given moment. All other films have very distinctive edge codes. Of course this doesn't bother me at all, because all their slide films are top notch. However, this is only my interpretation, and may be quite far from reality.

- 2 years ago i shot one, only to notice some months later when cleaning a slide that the edge code was "RA", which is in fact Sensia 100. It also looked like Sensia 100, ie low contrast and smooth, and i was very excited about it as at the time Sensia was already discontinued and there were no options for low contrast slide film. Unfortunately, this pleasant surprise didn't occur again and the canister from the first was long gone after development, so i couldn't check its code.

- Another person at a well known forum mentions one time when the edge code was "RVP100", which is Velvia 100. Let me know if you want and i can look it up.

PS: Fujichrome R100 was an E4 (if i remember the process correctly) slide film that fuji produced during the 70s, but i doubt it has anything in common with precisa 100.

That is remarcable ( what you just stated )....... and by the time : " Welcome to Apug dmtnkl " . So - I hope you agree, there is one new candidate we definitifly know it is not the source of
Fujis substitude to Agfa Precisa100 : Fujichrome R100. We should be sure of because of E4 Process - I doubt a little on E4 to this emulsion but I will check this.I remember Fujichrome R100 just from my mind. But the code " R100" you noticed is confusing. It seams to me like Fuji is not sure of their sources and they would use an old code because their options to other emulsions for delivering to
Lupus Imaging should be opened. So there are more and more doubts that Fujichrome Provia 100F is " ALLWAYS " inside the box when you just buy this ( very nice ) cheapest slide film today.

with regards

dmtnkl · Jun 29, 2017

As i said and as it is implied by the R100 code, i think it is the most generic slide film they can make at any given time. If it is the current or some older version of Provia, Sensia, Velvia or even some other emulsion that they decided to produce at that moment in time, is something that you just can't predict.

After all, given all the expertise they have gathered after so many years, it only makes sense to change the recipe of a rebadged film as they see fit, while also maintaing good quality and a low price. Currently, many people agree that it is the same as or close to Provia. Maybe a few months down the road it will be different.

I also do not think it is film that failed to meet quality assurance. The orders for this product should be quite substantial compared to others as it is present in most photo stores that sell film and most importantly, it is the only reversal film in many many drugstore chains in central europe. So i think it does not make sense for Fuji to rely on failed products to consistently meet this demand.

Also, when and if Kodak reintroduces ektachrome, i am pretty sure they will compete with Fuji for filling the Precisa orders. I wouldn't be surprised if we suddenly see kodak inside that box

trendland · Jun 30, 2017

Ricardo Miranda said:
It is Provia 100 without the F, either RDP or RDPII.
Provia 100F is RDPIII.

I was still wondering about the years how Fuji´s " improvements " with their emulsions have made a difference. But when you have looked to that time to Kodak it was just the same.

Kodak E 6 films : - first Kodak Ektachrome ( EPN )
- Kodak Ektachrome Plus ( EPP )
- Kodak Ektachrome Panther ( PRP )
- Kodak Ektachrome 100 S (E100S)
- Kodak Ektachrome 100 G (E100G)

So Fuji did it with the same name of emmulsion but in addition with their RDP markings. Well so , it seams to me, there might be not a very great differrence between Fuji Provia 100 RDP II AND
Fuji Provia RDP III - and as a conclusion of this, Fuji might give both emmulsion to the Agfa brand ( confusing...... ) ?

So we might see Provia 100 AND Provia 100F as Agfa CT Precisa 100. It might strongly depend to the time period , the dealer, the market region ?????

with regards

PS : I would not trust me to say that all people who indicates their personal Agfa Precisa definitifly as Provia 100F failed with their experience.
But I also would like to say that there is NO CASE of a " B-Quality Emulsion Provia 100F " - with some small production failures - because this shall be indeed a smal different
one : THE PROVIA 100 ( RDP II ).

dmtnkl · Jun 30, 2017

by the way, I just looked at the trebi 100 datasheet (in japanese) and the basic specs are the same as Provia 100F.

http://fujifilm.jp/support/filmandcamera/download/pack/pdf/datasheet/ff_trebi100c_001.pdf

Grain size (RMS 8), resolution (140 lp/mm for high contrast and 60 lp/mm for low contrast) are the same and the spectral response curves look identical as well.

tomfrh · Jun 30, 2017

Ricardo Miranda said:
It is Provia 100 without the F, either RDP or RDPII.
Provia 100F is RDPIII.

ok, thanks. I can't be sure he didn't say provia 100 not provia 100F.

j.c.denton · Jul 7, 2017

I've not made in-depth tests to compare colors and dynamic range, so I'll keep my personal impressions out of the equations. But when I scanned the "Provia" Agfa CT 100 in a mix with original Fuji Provia 100 about 2-3 years ago on my fladbed scanner (could have been either the Heidelberg Topaz II or the Screen Cezanne Elite), I noticed that the film base showed a certain color cast despite applied IT8 profile for Provia 100F. This is usually a caused by a difference in color metamerism of the scanned film material in comparison to the material of the IT8 target. In other words: they are different in some way.

(The same effect can be observed when choosing a different IT8 profile than the film to be scanned while at the same time using a scanner that uses light sources with a distinctly discrete light spectrum e.g. emitted by hot or cold cathode lights as well as LEDs. Drum scanners that use classic bulbs like the Heidelberg Tango are nearly unaffacted by this due to the -in comparison- quasi-continous spectrum their light source emitts.)

benjiboy · Jul 7, 2017

I use Agfa CT Precisa 100 and I don't care who makes it it's a pretty good film and it's cheap.

railwayman3 · Jul 7, 2017

j.c.denton said:
I've not made in-depth tests to compare colors and dynamic range, so I'll keep my personal impressions out of the equations. But when I scanned the "Provia" Agfa CT 100 in a mix with original Fuji Provia 100 about 2-3 years ago on my fladbed scanner (could have been either the Heidelberg Topaz II or the Screen Cezanne Elite), I noticed that the film base showed a certain color cast despite applied IT8 profile for Provia 100F. This is usually a caused by a difference in color metamerism of the scanned film material in comparison to the material of the IT8 target. In other words: they are different in some way.

If the difference was very subtle, could this be accounted for by variations in processing, storage or age of the film, or even just normal batch variations ?

trendland · Jul 7, 2017

j.c.denton said:
I've not made in-depth tests to compare colors and dynamic range, so I'll keep my personal impressions out of the equations. But when I scanned the "Provia" Agfa CT 100 in a mix with original Fuji Provia 100 about 2-3 years ago on my fladbed scanner (could have been either the Heidelberg Topaz II or the Screen Cezanne Elite), I noticed that the film base showed a certain color cast despite applied IT8 profile for Provia 100F. This is usually a caused by a difference in color metamerism of the scanned film material in comparison to the material of the IT8 target. In other words: they are different in some way.

(The same effect can be observed when choosing a different IT8 profile than the film to be scanned while at the same time using a scanner that uses light sources with a distinctly discrete light spectrum e.g. emitted by hot or cold cathode lights as well as LEDs. Drum scanners that use classic bulbs like the Heidelberg Tango are nearly unaffacted by this due to the -in comparison- quasi-continous spectrum their light source emitts.)

Interessting issue you mentioned j.c. denton.

By the time - we all now 2 kind of scan machines 1.) Hasselblatt/Imacon with some different types.
2.) Nikon coolscan 9000

To the most the coolscan is the ultimative scanner (afordable)..
Meanwile there are some other new types.
For me it was always youst an amateur
machine (with nice and proper results)
Hasselblatt was in an other league - just look at the prices.
But the Hasselblatt gives definitivly the best (ever seen ) quality.

But the master class is up to now the type of scanner you are familiar with.
Heidelberg is just unreachable in concern
of all parameters.
To my personal oppinium - I don't trust me to say this before - I am realy no friend
off discussing film characteristics with the analysing help of scan results, scan methods or with any issue from scanning.
Because it is just a mix of comparrision with no clear results.
Even when a Hasselblatt is used.
But Heidelberg is a reference - I can say this from comercial experience in the 90th.
And the mythology of this machines is allways in addition of a very well qualified
Operator.
So let me say : one need a solid training of several month just to operate this machine.And to become a real expert need an addition of years.
But as a result the expertise of such kind
of comparision is absolute meaningfull.
Many thanks j.c.denton.

with regards

Agfa CT Precisa100 - total different ancestry ?

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