Agfa Apx 400 S

Rolly · Aug 6, 2009

I bought some Agfa APX 400 in bulk-- just developed a test roll. I use a lot of APX 400 which I have stock piled; but this new acquisition has a bluish cast to the base, is slightly thinner base material-- and upon development, has "Agfa APX 400 S" marked on the edge of the film.

Anyone use this stuff, or know what that "S" stands for or have any information as to its origins, mythological final days of Agfa stories, etc? thanks, rolly

Kevin Caulfield · Aug 6, 2009

It is surveillance film.

Rolly · Aug 6, 2009

Thanks, Kevin. Has anyone shot much with it? I have now scanned a few images and just comparing "old" APX to this "S" stuff, I don't see a lot of difference, if any. Of course most of my shots are in even, early evening light so I would appreciate mor einfo if anyone has experience with this film. Thanks again

AgX · Aug 6, 2009

The gone APX 400S was just the APX 400 emulsion coated on a thin PET base instead of on a TAC base.

Kevin Caulfield · Aug 6, 2009

AgX said:
The gone APX 400S was just the APX 400 emulsion coated on a thin PET base instead of on a TAC base.

So it wasn't a surveillance film? I may have got it confused with something else?

Rolly · Aug 6, 2009

There's so much confusing information about Agfa, private label Agfa, rebranded Agfa, Agfa Belgium (their website seems to indicate they are not making consumer film but do make products for industry, so it is certainly possible that APX 400 S is an industrial film, as you suggest Kevin), Rollei Retro=Agfa APX and so forth and so on. Over the past months I have gleaned interesting bits and facts but this is the first I have run into Agfa APX 400 S.

AgX · Aug 7, 2009

Kevin,

Of course it was a surveillance film.
Standard panchromatic sensitization, higher speed, plus PET-base is what is typical for that group.

Rolly,

Agfa West-Germany and Agfa-Belgium have been practically one company since 1964. (That is the reason why it is named Agfa-Gevaert.)
Since 2002 (so even before the off-split of the so-called consumer imaging section which made the main part of the German facilities) it is a completely Belgian owned company.

Kevin Caulfield · Aug 7, 2009

Thanks for the confirmation, AgX.

AgX · Aug 7, 2009

As a clarification:

there are two groups:

-) surveillance (bank surveillance...)

-) traffic-surveillance (which is speeding surveillance) This group has an extended red sensitivity.

This is my understanding of the industry's use of designation.

Rolly · Aug 7, 2009

AgX-- Maybe you can clarify if there is, or is not, any difference between APX 400 and Apx 400 S, as far as use for shooting in a Leica (which is what I shoot, usually a 35mm lens). Thanks. rolly

cmo · Aug 7, 2009

Rolly said:
There's so much confusing information about Agfa, private label Agfa, rebranded Agfa, Agfa Belgium (their website seems to indicate they are not making consumer film but do make products for industry, so it is certainly possible that APX 400 S is an industrial film, as you suggest Kevin), Rollei Retro=Agfa APX and so forth and so on...

Oh, yes. And some companies pitch themselves as keepers of the holy Agfa grail and their products as moreor less official or legitimate heiress to the Agfa throne, it's utterly exhausting... and so needless.

If this is new film it is probably ASP 400 X, "designed for traffic surveillance" or ASP 400 S, an aerial film. If it is really labeled Apx 400 S it must be old stock, probably a previous version of one of these films.

I guess, these rolls are probably very different material than your APX 400. Maybe only Agfa will be able to tell you what it really is:

http://www.agfa.com/en/sp/forms/contactus.jsp

Martin Reed · Aug 7, 2009

When Agfaphoto wound up there were thousands of 100' rolls of this finding their way onto the general market really cheaply - I think we sold them in bundles of 6 ! So some of it must be washing to the shore occasionally. On our tests we could find no difference from the standard emulsion - however the PET base let's you wind a lot more exposures into a cassette, of course (and it curls).

Harry Lime · Aug 7, 2009

I miss the old APX400. It wasn't the finest grained 400 speed film on the market, but I do remember it having a really beautiful tonality. AGFA reformulated it shortly before they went bust and a lot of people said they ruined it, but I can't comment on that, since at that point I had switched to Tri-X.

But I do remember the older version having a ton of silver in it. The developed negs were so thick that they almost looked like an etching or relief.

AgX · Aug 7, 2009

Rolly said:
AgX-- Maybe you can clarify if there is, or is not, any difference between APX 400 and Apx 400 S, as far as use for shooting in a Leica (which is what I shoot, usually a 35mm lens). Thanks. rolly

I don't know whether the latter has a tinted base or not. In case of being tinted there should not be a light-piping issue of the base any longer. Concerning the mechanical properties I don't see a problem either. PE though, has lately referred to problems thin PET base films could case in complex rollfilm magazines. But I don't see this reflected so far in reports here.

rjr · Aug 7, 2009

Rolly,

"S" stands for the synthetic material base and the Film is currently called "ASP", not APX. ASP400S is very differently sensitized and used in traffic survaillance, it goes further into the red spectrum than ordinary APX. When buying it, be careful, many batches were sold as "NP", meaning non-perforated 35mm.

I know the tinted base from my ASP400S.

You can use it as an ordinary BW film or dig for the red end of it.

Roman

Rolly · Aug 7, 2009

Thanks, everyone. I have asked Agfa to clarify the exact nature of Agfa APX S. In terms of my observations after a test roll of APX S-- it is much more scratch resistant than old APX. It DOES curl, but it is less susceptible to the side-to-side curl old APX can be prone to. I have a hybrid set-up, using analog through film development, but then scan negs to disk from there. In scanning, other than a sepia cast to the scan, which is then auto-corrected into Black and White, I do not SO FAR see any difference from old APX. But I will shoot another couple tests. I'll share whatever Agfa tells me, when they reply. Again, many thanks for the feedback. rolly

Rolly · Aug 11, 2009

Update-- no reply from Agfaphoto (the German company). Tom Abrahamson (of Rapidwinder) used to use this stuff and thinks it is the same as old APX. However I shot another test roll with shots nmatched against same subjects in old APX and to my eye, looking at hi-res scans, I see the APX 400S as having 10-20% less response in the gray tones, and rather more contrasty, reminding me of old Tri-X. However with that said, the 400S looks like it would be a good inexpensive film. I got it from Ultrafine where they advertise it as old APX, on 55 foot rolls. In my opinion, it is not the same stuff; it would be worth using. I saw no problems using it at any speed. It just respionds to light slightly differently.

rjr · Aug 11, 2009

Rolly,

Update-- no reply from Agfaphoto (the German company)

Agfaphoto has nothing to do with the film you inquired about. Ask Agfa-Gevaert, either in Belgium or your local representation.

Rolly · Aug 11, 2009

I did contact Belgium FIRST; they referred me to the German company saying they handled "consumer film."

Here's the email from Agfa-Gevaert:
Dear Sir,

Agfa-Gevaert has sold its Consumer Imaging division to the independent German company AgfaPhoto in November 2004. We are therefore unable to help you with your question. We advise you to address your question to AgfaPhoto via their website (www.agfaphoto.com).

Best regards,
Viviane Michels
Corporate Communication

AgX · Aug 12, 2009

All surveillance films were strangely enough in the sale portfolio of Agfa Leverkusen which was considererd the consumer imaging brach.

So officially no-one in the Agfa headquarter in Mortsel can give you an answer concerning a question on a gone film, after that branch had been sold.

Their short answer is in line with their recent statement that they do not give any services/informations regarding products of the buyer of that branch.

WRSchmalfuss · Aug 14, 2009

AGFA APX 400S

AGFA Gevaert is a company with actual over 12.000 employees. AGFA Gevaert produces regularly high quality B&W films. AGFA Gevaert serves the Twin Crystal Technology, a "third way" besides T-crystals and cubic crystals. The latest films from AGFA Belgium, are in the 35mm version; 45mm; 60mm standard formats for photographic applications as finished products offered as ROLLEI-film brand.

In the USA exclusively sold through FREESTYLE L.A.

Agfa Apx 400 S

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