Agfa APX 100 does exist!

Hi Everyone,

A couple of years ago I recall reading in various online forums that Agfa APX 100 was going to be re-introduced. Then all the speculations began to float around such as this would just be left over stock from Agfas' final batch run, or that it would be a re-branded film carrying the APX label. However, none of the major stores in LA such as Freestlye seemed to be stocking it so I figured it was either just a rumor or available only in Europe. Then yesterday on a whim I stepped into a mom&pop camera store I don't often go into since they are a bit out of the way for me and what did I see on the shelf? Yes, APX 100. The process by date on the 16 rolls I bought is 12/2015 so it I don't think it's left over stock from back in the original Agfa days. The box states Agfa Photo. I recall seeing this brand of chemicals (such as Rodinal) at Freestyle, but never any film. Then the chemistry disappeared and I seem to recall reading that Agfa Photo had also gone under. So my question is this: What really is the film I bought yesterday? The box also states "produced for and distributed by Lupis Imaging & Media GmbH". The box also states Made in Germany so I'm inclined to think this film was also produced on the old Agfa coating machines. The guy who rang me up said it was a regular product they carry. Whatever the case, it's nice to have choices and if this film looks like the original APX that I used to use 10 years ago I'll be thrilled beyond belief. I just wish it was made in 120, but the store clerk said it was not. No big deal though, I'm just happy to have it in 135.

Not the same APX100.
There are some threads about this in the archives.

What you have there is old stock. I have bought this film with the same Exp date from vendors in Germany and as long as it is Agfa Photo and made in Germany it is old stock.
I have made comparison to older but frozen film made by Agfa Gevaert and there are no difference even under a sensitometer.

What I think Karl is referring to is the New APX100 that is starting to hit the shelves and that is not made in Germany but as far as I know is made by Harman and most likely is rebadged Kentmere film.

marcmarc,
You did not get any extraordinary or mysterious stuff. Just the same old APX I can get me on foot from the next drugstore.

What you got is the rest of the APX made in 2005. Frozen since then. Converted as needed.

The new APX is called APX new emulsion.

There are two AgfaPhoto entities: the production part with all consumer orientated plants of former owner Agfa. This part went under in its insolvency after being sold by Agfa; and AgfaPhoto Holding that survived that insolvency and only lives on using the AgfaPhoto brand for (re-)branding photo related products. (A brand they do not even own...) That old APX stock was the last asset made by Agfa resp. AgfaPhoto that could be used for that. In the past years they already branded Ferrania and Fuji films as AgfaPhoto ones.

The new versions showed up in Germany on the shelves at a photo store last autumn.

Not Kentmere

as far as I know is made by Harman and most likely is rebadged Kentmere film.

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Once more, and it has been said in this forum countless times, Harman doesn't "re-use" any of its films for other brands.
Read here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Marc,
There is also an APX 400 "new emulsion".

I assume there's no hard and fast rule determining "expiration" date, but is it a function of when the film is first coated or when the master rolls are cut and the film is packaged?

mgb74 said:

I assume there's no hard and fast rule determining "expiration" date, but is it a function of when the film is first coated or when the master rolls are cut and the film is packaged?

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Both. You can push back expiration time by freezing the film rolls, but only by so much. The reason there has been talk about some "new emulsion" seems to be that "only by so much" is about to run out.

Once more, and it has been said in this forum countless times, Harman doesn't "re-use" any of its films for other brands.
Read here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

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That was a decision made 5 years ago, a lot can change in 5 years.
The New Agfa film may not be the exact Kentmere emulsion, could be a small tweak but after all there are only a very few that can make film and I know of only one in England.

JLP said:

That was a decision made 5 years ago, a lot can change in 5 years.
The New Agfa film may not be the exact Kentmere emulsion, could be a small tweak but after all there are only a very few that can make film and I know of only one in England.

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Actually, it was a decision made about 10 years ago when Harman Technology took over the Ilford plant.
But I agree it could be a tweak on an existent formula.

Apx 100, the original one, was an outstanding film. Probably the best, most suitable to my taste. Works best in d76 straight and hc110. I have 300' left, expired in 2010.

I'm down to my last dozen rolls of APX100 120. I'll miss it, but there are plenty of other films out there. Life and photography go on!

ADOX does have a project for their own APX 100 and 400, reformulated from the original agfa recipe and being a "legitimate" relative to Agfa's Original. However, the project has been on hold for a few years, they did have a first pilot product for APX400 but it stopped there. The thread is there on ADOX's subforum on here.

Probably it is on hold due to them diverting the not that abundant resources to CHS II and these new APX products, and waiting for the right moment. Originally they did want to wait until all the Original APX ran out (as it was sold much cheaper than they product would).

Well, now I feel duped! I probably would have passed on buying this if I knew it was original stock. Frozen or not, I don't particularly feel good about using film that is going on 10 years old. Furthermore, I think it's a bit dishonest to put such film in a box that has a new process by date. Oh well, I shot a roll today as a test. If the film looks in bad shape, I'll try to get a refund or exchange although that may be difficult on a discontinued product. I guess it was too good to be true. Thanks for your replies.
Marc

If the film was well-stored, there's no reason to suspect it will perform poorly. Slow films, stored very cold, have very long lifespans.

marcmarc said:

Well, now I feel duped! I probably would have passed on buying this if I knew it was original stock. Frozen or not, I don't particularly feel good about using film that is going on 10 years old. Furthermore, I think it's a bit dishonest to put such film in a box that has a new process by date. Oh well, I shot a roll today as a test. If the film looks in bad shape, I'll try to get a refund or exchange although that may be difficult on a discontinued product. I guess it was too good to be true. Thanks for your replies.
Marc

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Duped? It sounds like it's the real stuff. Did you have some idea that it was new APX100 never discussed here before?

I still have some of the original stuff frozen that expired in 2008 and 2010, still works fine. I have some 120 too in the freezer. Wish I had someone nearby who stocked it. By the way, how much per roll was it?

I have 900ft in my freezer. No 120, though. :-(

Richard Sintchak (rich815) said:

Duped? It sounds like it's the real stuff. Did you have some idea that it was new APX100 never discussed here before?

I still have some of the original stuff frozen that expired in 2008 and 2010, still works fine. I have some 120 too I'm the freezer. Wish I had someone nearby who stocked it. By the way, how per roll was it?

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You are correct Jim, but the key word is "if." 9+ years or so is a long time. Furthermore, despite the fact that this store has a refrigerator, the Agfa films along with most of the b&w films were kept out in cubby holes built into the wall. Who knows how long these films have been sitting out there? Most camera stores have a container on the front counter with past date or near past date film that is marked down. This is where I would have expected to see these rolls. However, perhaps the store isn't aware of this. I went to the agfaphoto website and they list APX 100 and 400 as current products but do not mention their origin. They guy who rang me up even mentioned that the Freestyle branded Arista line was re-packaged Ilford which hasn't been the case in years. On the other hand, there must be a reason why all of the other major camera stores don't carry this film. Whatever the case, I'm going to be optimistic while I develop the test roll tonight. One difference I noticed as I was loading my F3 was that the non-emulsion side had a red-ish tint to it rather then the dull grey that the Ilford films have. I don't remember what APX looked like all those years ago. If it all is good, I'll probably go through these 16 rolls by the end of March...I'm a pretty high volume shooter. I won't bother picking up anymore after these 16 though...I just don't feel comfortable with it.

Richard, I thought this was the newer APX that I thought was going to be re-introduced. If I had any idea it might be left overs from Agfa's final run, I would have expected them to be in a box with a date of 2010 or whenever the last batch was made. With my student discount, the rolls came (with tax) to a little over $5.00. I might add too that I figured by now, all the old Agfa film from back then would have been long ago sold out. The 120 APX 100 didn't take long to sell out and I didn't think the 135 size would last too much longer either.

It's 2015 and even if stored in a room temp environment, I wouldn't be worrying about it being bad. I've processed film that was 10 years past and there was some base fog but nothing that couldn't be printed through. If I were in your shoes, I'd be going back to buy up the rest

Canuhead, I bought up the 16 rolls they had in stock. There was no way I was going to be considerate of others who miss APX as much as I

marcmarc said:

Well, now I feel duped! I probably would have passed on buying this if I knew it was original stock. Frozen or not, I don't particularly feel good about using film that is going on 10 years old.

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Freezing film can be considered standard of the trade. Even Agfa themself do it, and published it. As long the film is within the standards of the manufacturer one should not bother.

In this case we no longer deal with a film-manufacturer, but a company that has made/converted film for them.
So far no complaints about quality came up.

You buy a box of film expecting to contain different film from stated on the box. And when told that it is what is stated, you feel duped.
That is absurd.

The same time you state in your headline that just this film is back.


Distributing complete different films under the names APX 100 and 400, as they do now is something different. I wonder if you would feel duped by that if you finally come across those films.


Many fellows here whine about no longer being able to buy film locally. You got the chance to buy a film regarded as one of the best by many here at a mom-and-pop store and are discontend.

Cosina made a lot of cameras for other people...

It is called badge engineering...

mgb74 said:

I assume there's no hard and fast rule determining "expiration" date, but is it a function of when the film is first coated or when the master rolls are cut and the film is packaged?

Click to expand...

Yes, there is no fixed rule. The manufacturer decides about the minimum characteristics of his product. The same time there is a (typically vage) expectation of the customer and there also is a general quality level (or in this case a change of level during storage) given by the competitors and their offerings, a customer can relate to and even try to make a legal case if he is disappointed.

The moment a emulsion is made the clock starts to tick. Remember, there also is something as ripening, calculated into the manufacture. So the storage issue starts the momernt the manufacturer decides the film is technically ready to be used.

Whoever decided to put that specific expiration date on the film was most probably not the manufacturer of that film.

Depends whom you call manufacturer.

If you have something made to your specification and sell it on your behalf, then legally you are the manufacturer. If you buy raw stock from a film manufacturer and have it converted by another compamy, sell it on your behalf you still are manufacturer...

Anyway, the manufacturer of the film proper is practically no longer existant since 2005. AgfaPhoto Holding seemingly only serves for the branding (what by german law makes them manufacturer too, but they do not owen the brand, and the owner Agfa, who feel misused, reject liability), and manufacturer in legal terms is Lupus Imaging.

But, most important, no claims on the quality of their films have been uttered so far.