Agfa 17 1+2 dilution possible?

JPD · Jul 11, 2015

Agfa 17 is similar to D-76 and is an excellent standard film developer. I use it 1+1, but I'm wondering if 1+2 would be possible, for increased sharpness and time.

The formula is:

Metol - 1,5g
Sodium sulfite - 80g
Hydroquinone - 3g
Borax - 3g
Potassium bromide - 0,5g

Will there be enough Metol/Hydroquinone in a 1+2 dilution?

Xmas · Jul 11, 2015

Yes but you will need to try a few times for the contrast you want.

JPD · Jul 12, 2015

Thanks, I'll do that.

Xmas · Jul 12, 2015

There may be 1:1 and 1:3 times for D76 or ID11 to interpolate from... Approximately.

el wacho · Jul 12, 2015

You can also add 0.6g sodium carbonate to the formula to slightly increase the ph and therefore the activity of the mq pair. I've done this with the adox mq formula at 1+3 and the results were sharp with minimal sacrifice of pictorial quality.

Ian Grant · Jul 12, 2015

Just a correction the formula above is actually for Agfa/Orwo 44 also published as Agfa Ansco/GAF 17.

You can use it dilute, it'll give sharper results and slightly better film speed than D76 as there's less Sulphite. FR2 - Adox Borax MQ is similar and a better all-round developer than D76, I used if for a few years in deep tanks, replenished and supplied it to two commercial photographers for their studios.

Ian

Xmas · Jul 12, 2015

Ian Grant said:
Just a correction the formula above is actually for Agfa/Orwo 44 also published as Agfa Ansco/GAF 17.

You can use it dilute, it'll give sharper results and slightly better film speed than D76 as there's less Sulphite. FR2 - Adox Borax MQ is similar and a better all-round developer than D76, I used if for a few years in deep tanks, replenished and supplied it to two commercial photographers for their studios.

Ian

Ian's site provides lots of gory details...

http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photography/formulae/developers/devD76_variants.

JPD · Jul 12, 2015

Ian Grant said:
Just a correction the formula above is actually for Agfa/Orwo 44 also published as Agfa Ansco/GAF 17.

Thank you for correcting me. I now remember that you corrected me before. Yes, it's Agfa 44. I remember that I even cheched it in the Agfa recipe book. I need to make new labels for my bottles.

You can use it dilute, it'll give sharper results and slightly better film speed than D76 as there's less Sulphite. FR2 - Adox Borax MQ is similar and a better all-round developer than D76, I used if for a few years in deep tanks, replenished and supplied it to two commercial photographers for their studios.

Yes, and a little cheaper to mix than D-76.

Xmas · Jul 13, 2015

You might prefer the signature at 1:3 if you want more economy.
Or even ID68 though you need scales down to 0.01 gm.

JPD · Jul 13, 2015

Xmas said:
You might prefer the signature at 1:3 if you want more economy.
Or even ID68 though you need scales down to 0.01 gm.

Yes, but Agfa 44 (I'm not calling it 17 anymore ) contains less M/Q, sulfite and Borax than D76, so 1+2 should be pretty much the same as D76 1+3. My scales can handle 0,01g.

Xmas · Jul 14, 2015

JPD said:
Yes, but Agfa 44 (I'm not calling it 17 anymore ) contains less M/Q, sulfite and Borax than D76, so 1+2 should be pretty much the same as D76 1+3. My scales can handle 0,01g.

please note that Ian does not recommend D76 1:3 suggesting 1:2 as the a better limit.
Agfa 44 has a faster toe speed for the reduced sulphite and although the metol is slowed by the bromide this will reduce fog and also thereby increase an ISO toe speed but unless you step wedge you won't detect. The highlights will not be much different to D76 1:3...

So you could use D76 1:3 times as starters and might need to use more during fall overcast days which like us you sure to get.

Ian will grumble or amplify at need.

RalphLambrecht · Jul 14, 2015

Xmas said:
Yes but you will need to try a few times for the contrast you want.

Why not try at5.5,11,16 and 22 minutes,plot the data and interpolate?

RalphLambrecht · Jul 14, 2015

el wacho said:
You can also add 0.6g sodium carbonate to the formula to slightly increase the ph and therefore the activity of the mq pair. I've done this with the adox mq formula at 1+3 and the results were sharp with minimal sacrifice of pictorial quality.

developer formulation is best left to experts

Xmas · Jul 14, 2015

RalphLambrecht said:
Why not try at5.5,11,16 and 22 minutes,plot the data and interpolate?

Probably 5 and 20 and interpolate for 3rd trial would be optimal, but a priori we know that it is a close clone of D76 so the 1:3 time is going to be close.

JPD · Jul 14, 2015

Agfa 44 1+1 is slower than D-76 1+1. I plan to test Adox CHS II 100 in 1+2, but first exposing the film +2, +1, 0, -1, -2 too see wich frame looks best in perhaps 18 min in 1+2, and if, for example, -1 looks best and 0 overdeveloped, cut the times by 25% for the next test.

Xmas · Jul 14, 2015

RalphLambrecht said:
developer formulation is best left to experts

Well yes but I'd discourage carbonate if you use non pre hardened film and acid stop or acid fix, for risk of emulsion damage.

additional Borax (for single shot) or a boric acid/buffer (for stock or replinish) would be less exposed?

JPD · Jul 14, 2015

Xmas said:
Well yes but I'd discourage carbonate if you use non pre hardened film and acid stop or acid fix, for risk of emulsion damage.

Those thousands of micro bubbles in the emulsion when it happens are not pretty.

el wacho · Jul 16, 2015

It's not a formulation but a simple modification based on another similar developer. It is tried and tested in the real world. Perhaps you are making a point about something else?

el wacho · Jul 16, 2015

Xmas said:
Well yes but I'd discourage carbonate if you use non pre hardened film and acid stop or acid fix, for risk of emulsion damage.

additional Borax (for single shot) or a boric acid/buffer (for stock or replinish) would be less exposed?

there's no problem with the carbonate because the level is highly buffered by the borax levels. You people love to play 'expert' around here. Personally, I don't need it I'll leave you all to it.

el wacho · Jul 16, 2015

RalphLambrecht said:
developer formulation is best left to experts

So too with Art photography

Agfa 17 1+2 dilution possible?

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