Afonso time developing, film came out almost blank

andylyon87 · Oct 12, 2014

Question:
I developed my first film today, it came out pretty much transparent. When I say pretty much, I noticed it did have some of the very very faint outlines of the images. My question is what went wrong?

There are no numbers visible on the film, making me think this is a development problem and not a camera problem.

My thoughts were the film should have been developed for longer? As it looks like it hasn't started taking on all the detail before actually washing it away. Any suggestion are much appreciated.

My process:
Fuji neopan 400 pro film

Developer:
ID-11 powder developer
- used at 1+3 dilution from stock (stock created 2weeks ago and stored in 2x500ml fizzy drinks bottles)
- temperature used at 20c
- developed for 15mins
- 10 seconds agitation (4 inversions per minute)

Ilfostop for 20 seconds constant agitation. Dilution of 1+19

ilford rapid fixer for 3 minutes 30 seconds, 10 seconds agitation at the start of each minute. Dilution of 1+4

wash for 10mins finishing with a wetting agent dilution

ic-racer · Oct 12, 2014

used at 1+3 dilution from stock (stock created 2weeks ago and stored in 2x500ml fizzy drinks bottles)

Try diluting it just before use.

andylyon87 · Oct 12, 2014

ic-racer said:
Try diluting it just before use.

Cheers for the reply. My stock solution of id11 was mixed two weeks ago. It says in an airtight container would have a shelf life of 6 months so was hoping that would be ok. The 1+3 solution was made today just before development.

Would blank film mean I under did the development time?

Maris · Oct 12, 2014

I'd say either underexposure or inactive developer.

Developer activity is easy to check in room light. Just drop in a fully exposed chip of film. It should go black in a minute or so.

Under exposure stays clear no matter how long the developing time. All the lightly exposed silver halides develop to completion in the first couple of minutes and then wait for the heavily exposed parts of the negative to build density as development continues.

Underexposure is usually a consequence of faulty camera settings or a faulty shutter or iris diaphragm that is not letting the right amount of light to get to the film.

pentaxuser · Oct 12, 2014

Is this the first film you have ever exposed or have you used the same camera and same type of film before and had it processed commercially with OK results.

I ask this because if the same camera and same film produced OK negs when commercially processed then it strongly suggests that your working solution had seriously exhausted. Your process time should not have given you almost clear negatives even if it wasn't the recommended time. Of course you should have used the time suggested by the developer's manufacturer.

As others have said use the working solution immediately after you have made it up

pentaxuser

pentaxuser · Oct 12, 2014

PS What's Afonso time?

pentaxuser

Rick A · Oct 12, 2014

The time and temp the Op listed are same as recommended on MDC. Lack of edge numbers suggests developer issue not exposure issue. ID-11 mixed two weeks ago should still be good even if not kept in full tightly stoppered bottle. Possibility of expired chemistry in the package? Was there an expiry date on the package?

MattKing · Oct 12, 2014

Welcome to APUG.

Tell us about how you made the stock solution - including the quantities used.

Just in case your stock solution was actually diluted to working strength solution.

Bill Burk · Oct 12, 2014

andylyon87,

The developer should have a long life, but we had a thread recently where someone found the water they used caused the developer to exhaust on the shelf within a matter of days.

So what kind of water did you use?

Also, please do the test Maris Rusis suggested to see if the developer is inactive. If it is, try a new batch of developer.

Arvee · Oct 12, 2014

Hmmmm, anxious to hear more...sounds alarmingly familiar.

mr rusty · Oct 13, 2014

Stupid question but you didn't use neopan 400cn professional which is a c41 process film?

andylyon87 · Oct 13, 2014

pentaxuser said:
PS What's Afonso time?

pentaxuser

DYAC, this should say First time developing, film came out almost blank.

pdeeh · Oct 13, 2014

Now that's a smart thought Mr. Rusty

Something really helpful in diagnosing this sort of issue is to actually see a picture of the negatives - not a scan, but a pic of the negative on a lightbox. If you don't have a lightbox, then tape a strip of negative to a sheet of printer paper and hold it up against a diffuse light (the sky is good ). Or if you have a tablet or smartphone there are apps to turn them in to a lightbox.

andylyon87 · Oct 13, 2014

Maris said:
Developer activity is easy to check in room light. Just drop in a fully exposed chip of film. It should go black in a minute or so.

I might have to try this, so I should seperate out a little stock dev and drop an undeveloped chip in the solution?

pentaxuser said:
Is this the first film you have ever exposed or have you used the same camera and same type of film before and had it processed commercially with OK results.

This is the first film I have ever developed, and the first film I ever developed from this camera, I am going to have the second roll professionally done to test for this.

Rick A said:
Possibility of expired chemistry in the package? Was there an expiry date on the package?

I bought this earlier this year, and is still well in date.

MattKing said:
Tell us about how you made the stock solution - including the quantities used.

Just in case your stock solution was actually diluted to working strength solution.

So the solution was produced following the instructions in the box from Ilford. Produces 1 litre of stock solution from the 2 powders (mixed 2 weeks ago). This stock solution was then diluted 3+1 to give my working solution.

Bill Burk said:
The developer should have a long life, but we had a thread recently where someone found the water they used caused the developer to exhaust on the shelf within a matter of days.

So what kind of water did you use?

I used tap water, maybe in hindsight I should have used distilled water?

mr rusty said:
Stupid question but you didn't use neopan 400cn professional which is a c41 process film?

It was the np 400 pr, almost certain it is not the C41 as I check to ensure I could develop this myself

Simonh82 · Oct 13, 2014

Did you wash the fizzy drink bottles thoroughly? Acidic fizzy drinks could lead to reduced developer activity if there are any trace. Just a thought.

Rick A · Oct 13, 2014

My next question would have to be, is your thermometer accurate? I had a problem with a dial face thermometer going bad several years back and went nuts trying to figure out what went wrong with my developer. The realization came about when I started using a different developer and was trying to establish base times for it with the film I was using.

Arvee · Oct 13, 2014

Any possibility of chemical cross contamination, i.e., developer was mixed in a container that previously contained stop or fix or other chemical? At 1+3 it wouldn't take much contamination to kill it. Also, were the 500ml storage bottles washed thoroughly prior to use? Coke contains phosphoric acid and other possible contaminants.

Was the stock developer when mixed 1+3 crystal clear? Not off color, yellow or light brown?

To check, prepare a 60ml solution at 1+3 and drop in a small piece of film exposed to daylight and wait the full 15 minutes. It should turn completely black in that time. If it isn't completely black in that time, the developer is dead.

rockphotographer · Oct 15, 2014

Yeah...if the edge codes aren't nice and black, then it's definitely something wrong in development or the developer chemicals. It could also be time or temp.

andylyon87 · Oct 15, 2014

OK, so taking on board everyones ideas and questions I am going to do the following to try and solve the problem:

Stop using dodgy fizzy drinks bottles, use water bottles for storage only in future.
Stop storing my developer, so no more powder. Decided to try LC29 developer, so I can mix it on the day in the quantity I require. Less diluted storage should reduce issues.
Bought a digital thermometer, which will be tested against a couple of other thermometers to get an idea of what is what

So with these 3 things altered I am going to try again this weekend. Wish me luck and thanks for the useful tips and ideas.

pentaxuser · Oct 15, 2014

Best of luck, Andy. I like the way you have tried to solve this problem and you deserve success.Let us all know how it goes

pentaxuser

Rick A · Oct 15, 2014

Before you toss the developer, clip a film leader(just about an inch) and expose it to room light, then drop in your preferred developer dilution. If it turns dense black in a short time, the developer is good, and maybe the temperature was colder than you thought(under developed). If it doesn't turn dense black in a reasonable amount of time(or at all), then toss the developer.

Afonso time developing, film came out almost blank

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