Affordable batteryless lightmeter suggestions?

Ko.Fe. · Mar 14, 2016

Skip old ones. Where are stories here and where about having working one. Even Leningrad .
But getting old working one is very different story. It is more like - yes, it is working one, but I just haven't used it for last ten years.
I also don't like to use iPhone free app all time. I didn't liked new with LCD interface light meters. If you for some reason haven't set on Seconic you have mentioned, here is more simple, less expensive one, yet working for indoors, incident light.
http://www.sekonic.com/products/l-208/overview.aspx
Despite bashing from gearheads, it does the job well, classic and not expensive. I have it for three or so years now and haven't changed battery yet.
Honestly, leave old ones for collectors.

AgX · Mar 14, 2016

trondsi said:
Just out of curiosity I also looked up the Weston lightmeters, and I notice that they do not have a white dome on them. Do you point the back side (the selenium) towards the subject in this case? Would you call that reflected light reading?

-) pointing the Selenium cell to the subject means reflected light metering

-) pointing the (blank) Selenium cell to the camera would mean incident light metering, though depending on the built of a cell the metering angle may be limited. You would have to correct the result anyway

-) What "back side" ?

-) there inded were Weston meters with a dome.
See this video made by our Apug fellow Pentaxpete:

BrianShaw · Mar 14, 2016

trondsi said:
Thanks for the info folks!

Just out of curiosity I also looked up the Weston lightmeters, and I notice that they do not have a white dome on them. Do you point the back side (the selenium) towards the subject in this case? Would you call that reflected light reading?

Weston's are reflected light meter - point at the subject. They had an accessory, called the Invercone, for incident metering. It works but is a bit of a pain. If you want to do incident metering suggest looking into a Sekonic or Gossen option.

trondsi · Mar 14, 2016

Thanks again for the info folks!
Yes, as I mentioned I just bought the Sekonic L 398a.

I was just thinking: I suppose the Sekonic could also be used wide open (no slide, no dome) in dim light, with a bit calibration?

AgX · Mar 14, 2016

Yes, one leave off the dome and calculate for it instead, But have in mind what I said about the metering angle.

summicron1 · Mar 14, 2016

BrianShaw said:
Weston's are reflected light meter - point at the subject. They had an accessory, called the Invercone, for incident metering. It works but is a bit of a pain. If you want to do incident metering suggest looking into a Sekonic or Gossen option.

the domes came with the originally but usually got separated. There are some floating around.

A Sekonic L398A doesn't use batteries and has the advantage of being still in production, so you know you are buying a meter with a fully active selinium cell -- the Westons are ALL very old at this point.

A Sekonic can be had for around $125 or so, less if you look. Very accurate and come with the dome for Incident readings already installed. In fact, it is the preferred method with that meter.

trondsi · Mar 15, 2016

I wanted to photograph a building with some trees outside. The sunlight was quite sharp, but 2/3 of the house was in shade, and with the trees only edges of some branches and some leaves were in the light. First, I just held up the meter in the light and read off it and shot. Then I had an idea (with no experience to tell me if it's going to work): since 2/3 of the house is in the shade, I did just that: I rotated the meter until 1/3 of the sphere was in the sharp light, and 2/3 in the shade.

I don't think the shot will be great (just testing the equipment) but I wonder if the exposure will be correct. I like to keep some shadow detail without blowing the lights too much.

BrianShaw · Mar 15, 2016

summicron1 said:
the domes came with the originally but usually got separated. ...

Thanks for that correction. I had no idea!

Gerald C Koch · Mar 15, 2016

The only batteryless meters use a selenium cell which generates a current when exposed to light. Whether old ones still work is a matter of how they were stored. Those meters with batteries use the energy in the battery to create a current proportional to the light. In this case think of the cell as a sort of valve which passes a variable amount of current.

Selenium cells like all things have advantages and disadvantages.

Pro:

o Use no battery which could suddenly fail.
o Sensitivity to color matches the human eye more closely than some other cells.

Cons:

o Become fatigued when exposed to very bright light. They must rest in the dark for several minutes before they will give a correct reading. Always store the meter in its case when not in use. Eventually constant exposure to light will destroy the cell. The worst thing to do would be to leave it on a shelf uncovered for years. Older cameras like the Contax had a cover over the cell to protect it. Others like the Olympus Trip 35 had the cell situated around the lens so the lens cap covered it when not in use.
o Not as sensitive to low light levels as newer cells.

In summary selenium meters can be excellent but you need to test thoroughly before you buy. Then take care of whatever one you buy.

trondsi · Mar 15, 2016

Even though my new meter seems to be working fine, I checked out the video and some info on the Weston meters. There is one thing I really like about them: you switch from bright to low light by simply opening the lid, and the scale seems to change automatically, if I understand it correctly. Very neat. The ones on ebay are cheap but they never say if they work or not, so I assume not.

AgX · Mar 15, 2016

Modern meters do not need that switching, they have a much wider metering range.

Ian Grant · Mar 15, 2016

My back-ups are a pair of Leningrad 4 meters, I've found them surprisingly accurate and they are very inexpensive.

Ian

trondsi · Mar 15, 2016

AgX said:
-) pointing the Selenium cell to the subject means reflected light metering

-) pointing the (blank) Selenium cell to the camera would mean incident light metering, though depending on the built of a cell the metering angle may be limited. You would have to correct the result anyway

-) What "back side" ?

-) there inded were Weston meters with a dome.
See this video made by our Apug fellow Pentaxpete:

BTW thanks for the video. Do you think most of these meters on ebay are functional?

R.Gould · Mar 15, 2016

trondsi said:
BTW thanks for the video. Do you think most of these meters on ebay are functional?

If you get hold of a Weston Master 4,5, or one of the Euromasters then I would say that 99% of the time they should be working fine, Remember that the Euromaster 2 was still being made by Megatron in the UK untill fairly recently,I never use anything else for my normal metering, and have both a 5 and Euromaster, and both have been checked against a Sekonic and are spot on, as is a much earlier model, so the chances are pretty good, Get one that is cased and with the Invervone, which is used for incident metering (just clip the invercone over the cell for incident), and if you can get hold of a manual for the meter then that is the best ways to learn about exposure, a lot is packed into a small booklet,

Ian Grant · Mar 15, 2016

R.Gould said:
If you get hold of a Weston Master 4,5, or one of the Euromasters then I would say that 99% of the time they should be working fine, Remember that the Euromaster 2 was still being made by Megatron in the UK untill fairly recently,I never use anything else for my normal metering, and have both a 5 and Euromaster, and both have been checked against a Sekonic and are spot on, as is a much earlier model, so the chances are pretty good, Get one that is cased and with the Invervone, which is used for incident metering (just clip the invercone over the cell for incident), and if you can get hold of a manual for the meter then that is the best ways to learn about exposure, a lot is packed into a small booklet,

That's very definitely not my experience, I've found them the worst of all for Selenium cell failure, I now steer well away as there's no longer any servicing or replacement cells.

Ian

Arvee · Mar 15, 2016

Ian Grant said:
That's very definitely not my experience, I've found them the worst of all for Selenium cell failure, I now steer well away as there's no longer any servicing or replacement cells.

Ian

+1! I had (4) Weston Masters, 2-4s and 2-5s, and all experienced selenium cell failure. However, my two Sekonic 398s are still working fine, even the one purchased in the 60s.

I recall reading somewhere that the 4s and 5s were seriously bad about cell failure. I have a 2 and a 3 in the collection that are still working and accurate.

BrianShaw · Mar 15, 2016

Interestingly (perhaps; or not) I've had pretty good luck with Master IIIs, which date from the mid-1950's. Like 100% good luck on 6 of them. This is perhaps unusually good luck. And the one that stopped working -- I thought it was the dreaded cell failure -- resumed working after the cell contact was cleaned. One had to be decommissioned but that's because I broke the glass. If it's held in a certain orientation, though, it still meters good. The problem with buying from eBay is that there's a risk factor: too many sellers include weasel-words like "estate find; I don't know how to test"; and the like. Few show pictures of the meter pointed at light so it's anyone's guess if it works or not.

R.Gould · Mar 16, 2016

Ian Grant said:
That's very definitely not my experience, I've found them the worst of all for Selenium cell failure, I now steer well away as there's no longer any servicing or replacement cells.

Ian

Your wrong about no servicing Ian Partridge services the 4,5, and euromaster's and can fit new cells. and I have yet to have a bad 4.5,and Euromaster, maybe you have been unlucky ?

John Koehrer · Mar 17, 2016

The Sekonic 398 used to come with a reflected light adapter that replaced the dome.
The same diameter(doh!) as the dome, flat black plastic with a bunch of holes in it.

If yours is new, check inside the case, there should be a storage slot.

trondsi · Mar 17, 2016

John Koehrer said:
The Sekonic 398 used to come with a reflected light adapter that replaced the dome.
The same diameter(doh!) as the dome, flat black plastic with a bunch of holes in it.

If yours is new, check inside the case, there should be a storage slot.

Yes, it did come with one of those. I will try it out, but it seems to make the meter much less sensitive.

Ian Grant · Mar 18, 2016

R.Gould said:
Your wrong about no servicing Ian Partridge services the 4,5, and euromaster's and can fit new cells. and I have yet to have a bad 4.5,and Euromaster, maybe you have been unlucky ?

I think it's the other way around and that you've been rather lucky. I see an awful of of Weston meters for sale and few if any will give full readings now, unless they've had a new cell. My own V and Euromaster (the latter bought new) have both long given up the ghost, it's not worth having them serviced when I can pick up better meters for less.

Ian Partridge is a new name to me, I know that the company refurbishing them before would add a new cell and movement and stopped when parts ran out.

Ian

bdial · Mar 18, 2016

My experience is similar to Ian's. I see older Weston's in antique shops pretty regularly, but finding one that even responds to light is unusual. Finding one that responds enough to consider testing for accuracy is rare in my experience.
YMMV though.

trondsi · Mar 18, 2016

I got intrigued enough by the elegant simplicity of Weston to order one that comes with a guarantee to work from the seller. It's a Master V.

Gerald C Koch · Mar 18, 2016

Older Weston meters are calibrated in Weston speed and not the usual ASA or ISO speeds.

R.Gould · Mar 18, 2016

From the 4 at least they are calibrated in asa/din, at least they were in the UK, certainly my 4/5 are asa/din

Affordable batteryless lightmeter suggestions?

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