AF Nikkor 28/2.8D question

Murray@uptowngallery · Sep 7, 2007

Question(s):

I was given an AF Nikkor 28 mm f/2.8 D lens.

An employee loaned her camera to her son for a class at school & he unfortunately for someone came home with an extra lens. It didn't fit her old Nikon F or whatever old cameras it was.

Visually the glass is great, but I am trying to determine if it was mishandled because it has what I consider an odd characteristic.

If the lens is tilted back & forth 180 degrees while holding the outer barrel only, a little 'play' is apparent (a VERY slight thunk, can feel more than hear)). Gripping the inner portion (part that extends in/out with focus ring and where push-on front lens cap would mount) and outer barrel and the movement is gone.

My guess is, it either has a problem or it's different than non-AF manual lenses because it's motorized.

If someone has one of these can you please tell me if this is a normal or abnormal observation, and what camera bodies it fits (maybe I can find someone to test it locally).

Since I have no Nikon, I would either sell it or if it's defective, hack it onto some other camera body for an experiment, or take it apart (a habit I have).

Thank you

Murray

Soeren · Sep 7, 2007

AF lenses have more play and a lighter/looser focus action than MF lenses so that is normal. Nikor AF lenses will fit all nikons made for Ai and newer, but not the old F ( I think, IIRC )
Kind regards
Søren

Murray@uptowngallery · Sep 7, 2007

Thanks Soeren.

Murray

John Koehrer · Sep 7, 2007

It should fit any Nikon made, It won't meter with the older bodies 'cus it has no prong ie:it's prongless, much like a dead parrot.

Don't relly know why that slipped in, just seemed appropriate.

copake_ham · Sep 7, 2007

John Koehrer said:
It should fit any Nikon made......

Bingo!

The Nikon F-mount is unchanged for the last 50 years!

You can use this lens on a Nikon F if you so desire. If stop-down metering doesn't work then either use an external meter or the Sunny/16 rule.

The great thing about the F-mount lens system is that they can be used on any Nikon SLR and DSLR in some fashion or other.

Murray@uptowngallery · Sep 7, 2007

Thanks all.

John, off the wall comments couldn't be directed to a more appropriate person :O).

George, I seem to remember her having something with a name related to Nikon, like Nikkormat?

I don't know if she tried fitting and concluded it wouldn't or was told it wouldn't 'work'.

Anyway, time to decide what to do with it.

Thanks

dslater · Sep 7, 2007

Murray@uptowngallery said:
Thanks all.

John, off the wall comments couldn't be directed to a more appropriate person :O).

George, I seem to remember her having something with a name related to Nikon, like Nikkormat?

I don't know if she tried fitting and concluded it wouldn't or was told it wouldn't 'work'.

Anyway, time to decide what to do with it.

Thanks

The Non-Ai Nikon cameras ( the F, F2, and most Nikkormats except for the Ft8 and the EL2) need the prong on the lenses aperture ring to couple with the meter. In the past, you could have Nikon put the prong on a prongless lens for about $30.00 - you may still find someone to do this for you. If you're interested, you might want to post a question over at www.nikonians.org

Dan

copake_ham · Sep 7, 2007

Murray@uptowngallery said:
Thanks all.

John, off the wall comments couldn't be directed to a more appropriate person :O).

George, I seem to remember her having something with a name related to Nikon, like Nikkormat?

I don't know if she tried fitting and concluded it wouldn't or was told it wouldn't 'work'.

Anyway, time to decide what to do with it.

Thanks

Back in the day, Nikon was uncertain how to respond to market demand for a cheaper version of the "F".

Finally they decided to come out with the Nikkormat FTN (which itself was a bit of a confusion as there was a version of the F known as the FTn! - sometimes upper and lower case letters have meanings).

Anyway, the Nikkormat FTN was a more basic SLR but uses the F-mount. After the FTN, there were several other Nikkormats including the FT2 (my first SLR), FT3 and an EL series.

Ultimately, Nikon dropped the Nikkormat nomenclature for "second tier" models.

But just like "real" Nikons, the Nikkormats all use the F-mount.

Oh, and the "mat" in the Nikkormat nomenclature indicates they all have built-in metering systems.

Murray@uptowngallery · Sep 8, 2007

Thank you.

mawz · Sep 11, 2007

Stop-down metering with AF lenses works just fine on Nikkormats, I do it regularly on my FTn with a 20/2.8 AF that's prongless.

John Koehrer · Sep 11, 2007

copake_ham said:
Oh, and the "mat" in the Nikkormat nomenclature indicates they all have built-in metering systems.

Except for the FS!

copake_ham · Sep 11, 2007

John Koehrer said:
Except for the FS!

Aha! That's the one I couldn't remember. But wasn't it a NikkOmat rather than a NikkORmat?

I remember there was one weird, cheapo and unreliable pseudo-model made by a company in HK under a short-lived license from Nikon. A marketing mistake that Nikon quickly and quietly "forgot" about...

dslater · Sep 11, 2007

copake_ham said:
Aha! That's the one I couldn't remember. But wasn't it a NikkOmat rather than a NikkORmat?

Actually, Nikomat and Nikkormat are the same cameras. Nikomat is the name used in Japan. However, it sounded like Ikomat which was a trade name of Zeiss Ikon, so in some foreign markets, Nikomats were renamed Nikkormats to avoid problems with trademark infringement.

Here's a reference:

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikkormat/index.htm

fschifano · Sep 11, 2007

There are a some exceptions to the "one size fits all" Nikon mount. True enough, the mounts have not changed over the years and any SLR lens made today will fit on any Nikon SLR ever made. If the only problem is that there is no metering prong, stop down metering can be used. A bit of an inconvenience, but it works well.

There are a couple of lenses, I think they're called "G" lenses, that have no aperture ring. F/stop settings are made by electro-mechanical means via the camera body. Obviously, these are pretty much useless if mounted onto an older camera body without the electrical contacts for the aperture.

dslater · Sep 11, 2007

fschifano said:
There are a some exceptions to the "one size fits all" Nikon mount. True enough, the mounts have not changed over the years and any SLR lens made today will fit on any Nikon SLR ever made. If the only problem is that there is no metering prong, stop down metering can be used. A bit of an inconvenience, but it works well.

There are a couple of lenses, I think they're called "G" lenses, that have no aperture ring. F/stop settings are made by electro-mechanical means via the camera body. Obviously, these are pretty much useless if mounted onto an older camera body without the electrical contacts for the aperture.

Also, it can be dangerous to mount a pre-Ai lens on an Ai body. Ai lenses have a notch cut out in the aperture ring that mates with a small tab on the edge of the mount. A pre-Ai lens doesn't have this notch - as a result, the aperture ring will collide with this tab and either damage the lens or the camera. The higher end Ai bodies - like the F3 allow you to move the tab out of the way so you can use a Pre-Ai lens in stop-down mode. However, the tab is fixed on the less expensive models - like the Nikkormats.
Interestingly, the consumer AF bodies that won't meter with non-CPU lenses don't have this tab because they get all the information from the CPU. As a result, you can mount Pre-Ai lenses on these bodies.

dslater · Sep 11, 2007

This guy:
http://www.aiconversions.com/
Will put a prong on your AF lens so it can be used with a Pre-Ai Body

mawz · Sep 12, 2007

dslater said:
Also, it can be dangerous to mount a pre-Ai lens on an Ai body. Ai lenses have a notch cut out in the aperture ring that mates with a small tab on the edge of the mount. A pre-Ai lens doesn't have this notch - as a result, the aperture ring will collide with this tab and either damage the lens or the camera. The higher end Ai bodies - like the F3 allow you to move the tab out of the way so you can use a Pre-Ai lens in stop-down mode. However, the tab is fixed on the less expensive models - like the Nikkormats.
Interestingly, the consumer AF bodies that won't meter with non-CPU lenses don't have this tab because they get all the information from the CPU. As a result, you can mount Pre-Ai lenses on these bodies.

Actually, both of the AI Nikkormats have the flip-up tab, as do the FE and FM which replaced the AI Nikkormats. The first AI body without the tab was the budget EM, and the only post-1970's bodies to feature the flip-up AI tab were the F3 and F4, although you could get a factory mod for the F5 to add this capability. It's mostly irrelevant as getting a pre-AI lens AI modified is relatively cheap and easy (Used to be easier when factory AI rings were still available).

Oddly, the current cheapo digi models (D40/D40X) are the first non-pro models introduced with the ability to mount unmodified pre-AI lenses since the FE/FM of 1978. They changed the minimum aperture detection switch used on bodies which lack the AI tab from a slide switch to a pushbutton switch, which won't be damaged by pre-AI lenses.

dslater · Sep 12, 2007

mawz said:
Oddly, the current cheapo digi models (D40/D40X) are the first non-pro models introduced with the ability to mount unmodified pre-AI lenses since the FE/FM of 1978. They changed the minimum aperture detection switch used on bodies which lack the AI tab from a slide switch to a pushbutton switch, which won't be damaged by pre-AI lenses.

Actually, if you read this site:
http://www.aiconversions.com/

he claims that you still can't put an unmodified Pre-Ai lens on these bodies.

Anscojohn · Sep 12, 2007

Copake ham has it nearly all right. The first "low end" Nikon mount camera sold by Nikon in the USA was the Nikkorex F. IIRC, it was made by Richo for Nikon. It was not highly regarded. The Nikkormat (Nikkomat outside the USA) came after the much despised Nikkorex. I believe Nikon also used the Nikkorex appellation for a fixed mount Nikon with the earliest 43-86 zoom lens permanently stuck on it. IIRC.

copake_ham · Sep 12, 2007

Anscojohn said:
Copake ham has it nearly all right. The first "low end" Nikon mount camera sold by Nikon in the USA was the Nikkorex F. IIRC, it was made by Richo for Nikon. It was not highly regarded. The Nikkormat (Nikkomat outside the USA) came after the much despised Nikkorex. I believe Nikon also used the Nikkorex appellation for a fixed mount Nikon with the earliest 43-86 zoom lens permanently stuck on it. IIRC.

Thanks for clarifying.

BTW: occassionally you see a Nikkorex pop up on eBay - probably a "must have" for the uber-collector.

John Koehrer · Sep 12, 2007

copake_ham said:
I remember there was one weird, cheapo and unreliable pseudo-model made by a company in HK under a short-lived license from Nikon. A marketing mistake that Nikon quickly and quietly "forgot" about...

Nikkorex, non-interchangeable lens.
Nikkorex F, body made by Mamiya

mawz · Sep 13, 2007

dslater said:
Actually, if you read this site:
http://www.aiconversions.com/

he claims that you still can't put an unmodified Pre-Ai lens on these bodies.

Actually, if you see :http://www.aiconversions.com/d70etc.htm he notes that the D40/D40X are safe to mount non-AI lenses on without conversion.

mawz · Sep 13, 2007

Anscojohn said:
Copake ham has it nearly all right. The first "low end" Nikon mount camera sold by Nikon in the USA was the Nikkorex F. IIRC, it was made by Richo for Nikon. It was not highly regarded. The Nikkormat (Nikkomat outside the USA) came after the much despised Nikkorex. I believe Nikon also used the Nikkorex appellation for a fixed mount Nikon with the earliest 43-86 zoom lens permanently stuck on it. IIRC.

The Nikkorex F was a Mamiya product, but the design and jigs got sold to Ricoh and it was later produced as the Singlex under the Ricoh and Sears brands.

dslater · Sep 13, 2007

mawz said:
Actually, if you see :http://www.aiconversions.com/d70etc.htm he notes that the D40/D40X are safe to mount non-AI lenses on without conversion.

Ahh - you're right - I was looking at the D80, D50, etc.

Richard Kelham · Sep 14, 2007

mawz said:
The Nikkorex F was a Mamiya product, but the design and jigs got sold to Ricoh and it was later produced as the Singlex under the Ricoh and Sears brands.

Indeed and I still have mine. It still works, and it still makes a noise like a steam hammer. It came with quite a nice f1.4 lens which had the bayonet flanges slightly tweaked so that it could not be used on Nikon bodies (though most Nikon lenses could be used on the Singlex body). Obviously the designers had never heard of metal files as it was a simple enough job to file down the offending flange. That was in about 1966 and it was my first "serious" camera. I've been using (real) Nikons ever since.

Richard

AF Nikkor 28/2.8D question

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