Aero Ektar 12-inch f/2.5 4x5 Astro Camera

Matt Hall

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Hi everyone! I am fairly new to Phototrio and wanted to share a project I have been working on for some years now. In 1985 I purchased this Aero Ektar 12-inch f/2.5 lens (dated to 1953 using the serial number) from a military surplus outfit in Pasadena, CA that I'm fairly sure doesn't exist anymore. I was heading down to New Zealand with a group from Brooks Institute to shoot Comet Halley and thought a large format astro camera would be really cool. The head of the Industrial Dept. at Brooks, Vern Miller, turned me onto this lens. Unfortunately, I never got it finished and it got put into storage until about a year ago. When I rediscovered it I decided it was time to finish the project. Although Vern has passed several years ago I know he would have been proud to be apart of this effort.

I had to clear the rear lens group as it was quite brown from age due to the Thorium/Lanthanum fused into the glass to get the required dispersion characteristics the government needed for an aerial lens. I used a 5W UV LED bulb purchased on Amazon and left it on about 2 inches from the rear glass grouping for 7 weeks, 24/7. As it was just 5W there was no appreciable heat to damage the lens. It finally completely cleared up. Turns out I was losing 2-3 stops of light due to the discoloration which completely defeated the f/2.5 speed of the lens. With the help of a machinist to cut the threads on the lens mount I slowly built this camera. It has a rack and pinion focus mechanism with a locking screw (needed if you are pointing vertically) and I am working with Rick Oleson to create a 4x5 Bright Screen ground glass for me to aid in framing the image. I found a NOS 6"x 6" Aero 2 yellow filter (minus violet as this is an achromat) which I will use just as the military did when shooting this with IR B&W film. I am using the 4x5 rotating back from my old view camera while at Brooks (it worked great then so why not?). The entire thing was placed onto my GEM this last Saturday to make sure the weight was good and I had enough counterweight. etc. The entire camera weighs 28 pounds (most of that is the glass). I turned it to the Moon and could clearly see the surface craters on the ground glass. I was a bit surprised just how sharp it is (I did use a magnifying loop to aid in focusing). Anyway, I have some Porta 400 sheet film coming from B&H which I will have pushed 2 stops during processing to get a 1600 equivalent ASA rating. Think my first shots will be of Orion as it is in the right place and contains several bright stars to aid in focusing this beast. Just waiting for the Moon to get out of the way now so I can make my test exposures. Any comments or ideas would be welcomed!
 

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Cholentpot

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I've only gotten into 4x5 recently. I've only learned that these lenses are somewhat of the grail lenses for 4x5. Time to keep an eye out for one.

Can't wait to see results from your setup.
 

NB23

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Wow nice!

i have something that might interest you. I purchased a Aero Ektar 178mm f2.5 that came with a superb handmade camera/box, made for astrophotography. It turns out it was owned/made by a famous astrophotographer. Takes 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 sheets and it’s calibrated for infinity with the aero ektar 178mm.

The shutter is a little door on a hinge that opens and closes with the help of a cable release.

I have no use for it but don’t have the heart to throw it away. I’m always amazed at how well it’s made.
 
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Matt Hall

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Whatever you do, DO NOT throw it away. These lenses are hard to find, especially if in good condition. If you ever want to get rid of it let me know. Perhaps we could work out a deal. Matt
 

NB23

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Whatever you do, DO NOT throw it away. These lenses are hard to find, especially if in good condition. If you ever want to get rid of it let me know. Perhaps we could work out a deal. Matt

the lens unscrews, and I’m keeping it. But the body... I will post pictures, you will understand by looking at it. Took me a bit longer to understand the camera but it made total sense in the end
 

Dan Fromm

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I've only gotten into 4x5 recently. I've only learned that these lenses are somewhat of the grail lenses for 4x5. Time to keep an eye out for one.

Can't wait to see results from your setup.

Potty, I don't know whether you have a weak mind but using one of those monsters requires a strong back. I just took a quick look on eBay, several, in various states of decay, are on offer. None has a diaphagm. Big aerial lenses, for that matter aerial lenses in general, are hard to put in shutter. Monsters like the 12" AE might be usable in front of or behind a large Packard. Otherwise, except for astrophotography, their best use is as doorstops.

If you want a relatively portable relatively fast 300 or so aerial camera lens for use on 4x5 think about the 12"/4 TTH Telephoto lens as fitted to Vinten F. 95, AGI F.134 and AGI F.139 cameras. They're supposed to cover 4x5. I have one, it is the longest lens that's a comfortable fit on a 2x3 Speed Graphic.

But bear in mind that in general a free aerial camera lens is a poisoned gift. I've had a bunch of them. The only ones I can recommend are the 38/4.5 Biogon (I've had 20, still have 2; not for 4x5, they cover 84 mm), the 4"/2.0 TTH Anastigmat (not for 4x5, covers 2x3) and the 12"/4 TTH Telephoto. You absolutely positively don't want a 200/2.0 S.F.O.M., said to have been made by Kinoptik.
 

Cholentpot

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Thanks for the info and the update on my mental state.

I've been down the path of using the wrong lenses on the wrong cameras. I put a lot of time and money into getting a anamorphic setup only to find that it was far too fussy for everyday use and far too heavy. Results are brilliant though.
 

reddesert

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Good to see when someone actually manages to bring such a monster lens project to fruition.

The surplus store in Pasadena might have been C&H Surplus. They had all sorts of strange and impressive things. Looks like they moved a while ago and then closed the retail store, but there is still a website.

For focusing the beast, you may want to try using a pupil mask. This is not difficult in principle since you just have to make masks that fit over the front of the lens. One way to do it is to first mask off the left side of the objective, then the right side, and look for image motion relative to a fiducial mark in the focal plane (like a mark on the ground glass). If you're in focus the image won't shift, if you're forward of focus it shifts one way, and behind focus it shifts the other way. A more elaborate mask that has become common for astrophotographers is the Bahtinov mask: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahtinov_mask It works on the same image motion principle but looking at the motion of a diffraction spike.
 

AgX

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Matt, I like your design. Looks like straight of a tinkerers shop, made from stuff lying around anyway, or brought home "as one day I shall need it"...

But what is the function of the open, shallow U-profile at the side of the baseboard?
EDIT:
I just realized a slit for a bandage at this profie. Thus it is to take a 2nd, aiming lens.
 
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I decided it was time to finish the project.

Stunning work Matt! Cant wait to see the results of Orion!

Sorry to hijack your post, but a question for you - I have an Aero Ektar 178mm and am looking for a comprehensive guide to disassembling it to restore. Do you know of any resources availbel? Did you find anything during your restoration process?
 
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Matt Hall

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You are correct! I have a 400mm f/5 guide scope that fits into this slot so I can take long exposure, guided photos. I have 1/4-20 holes on the other side if I want to piggyback a camera to take small format images at the same time. Unfortunately I am pushing the limit of my GEM and need to find another unit that has more weight capacity. I have dragged this setup all over the world chasing comets and other various celestial sights so it has performed very well.
 
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Matt Hall

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I assume that you have the 7-inch f/2.5 baby brother to my lens? I have never seen any literature regarding these lenses as far as maintenance or restoration goes. I did disassemble the front grouping to do some cleaning internally. Mostly clumps of dust oily residue, no fungus fortunately. You will need and extra large spanner wrench, good luck finding one (I had to build my own) to unscrew the front retaining ring. It was extremely tight as it had not been turned in over 50 years. Are you just trying to clean the glass or is there more involved such as servicing the shutter, etc?
 

Dan Fromm

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Matt, did your monster come with a between the lens shutter? I ask because nearly all of the 6" and 7" AEs I 've seen didn't. Also, did yours come with a diaphragm? Most of the 7 inchers I've seen, very few of the 6 inchers, have had a diaphragm.
 
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Matt Hall

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Matt, did your monster come with a between the lens shutter? I ask because nearly all of the 6" and 7" AEs I 've seen didn't. Also, did yours come with a diaphragm? Most of the 7 inchers I've seen, very few of the 6 inchers, have had a diaphragm.
When I purchased this lens in 1985 it was the complete camera. The was a front cone with the lens and a rear plate for film and everything. It had a shutter in between the two lens groups but no diaphragm. I believe that these were used wide open and had no need for an iris. Unfortunately, I sold the camera and shutter years ago as I really had no use for them. Now I wish I had kept the shutter, although it was as big as the lens and a bit heavier. I have also read that the shutter blades were strong enough to take off a finger. I got the entire thing for $200.00 and thought that was expensive. Looks really cheap now!
 

kinglang

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I have an Ektar 178/2.5 and want to get rid of it
 
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