AE camera with Leica M mount: best alternative for 2024?

Kodachromeguy · Sep 12, 2024

Hi Everyone, I would like a rangefinder camera with a Leica M mount and auto exposure option. I have used the M3 and M2 for 40 years, but I'd like a bit of automation. Choices seem limited.

1. Minolta CLE. No, too old.
2. Leica M7. I keep reading rumors of reliability. Truth? Internet complaints?
3. Zeiss Ikon ZM. Any issues? It is only 10 or 12 years old.
4. Bessa R2A or R3A. My friend in town said repairs were an ugly experience and he thought they felt rather discount. And now they cost $1200+ from the Japanese vendors.
5. Konica Hexar RF. Seems rare. An opinions?

Thanks for advice.

Bushcat · Sep 12, 2024

I had a Hexar RF a while back and REALLY liked it. But then, I liked the Contax G1/G2 too. Konica stopped absolutely all support for it around 2010, so I don't know what the parts situation would be like.

beemermark · Sep 12, 2024

M7. Most internet postings are more about the electronics will fail rather then any actual reports of them actually failing. I bought mine new around 2005 and had DAG do a CLA (as insurance) in 2022. Great camera. And because of the similarity between the early cameras not much of a learning curve. The metering works very well.

radialMelt · Sep 12, 2024

Love my M7 and the metering is very good (in my experience). I also very much appreciate the AE-L feature, especially for backlit scenes. If you have the choice, go for a later one with the optical DX-code reader and the MP viewfinder. My copy (later serial) had some dirty switch contacts in the ISO dial and the shutter/power switch which was irritating. Sent it to DAG and Don was able to clean the switches and it's been running well ever since. (knock on wood)

I hear the Zeiss Ikon ZM finder is a joy to use on account of being huge. I always wanted to try one. Apparently rangefinder calibration is extremely difficult to do though, which given limited repair techs, seems a bit of a risk to me.

beemermark · Sep 12, 2024

Leitz would replace the M6 VF with the MP VF and upgrade the ISO finger taps to optical for free. Ones that weren't upgraded I think are on the rare side. If the ISO reader has been upgraded you can be reasonably sure the VF was also. One of the many reasons I hated the M4-2 and M6 was the crappy flarey VF.

Ballinderry-Michael · Sep 12, 2024

I have a Bessa-T and could recommend that model - but you have to have a separate viewfinder for each lens you use. The rangefinder is clear and accurate. The shutter is manual: two LR/SR44 batteries (or one DL1/3N) power the meter.

Build is maybe not perfect: mine came from a reputable dealer who hadn't noticed a slightly loose accessory mount, which I didn't spot either until some wonky sea horizons turned up. Apart from that, once it's fixed it will be a pleasure to use.

Patrick Robert James · Sep 12, 2024

The Hexar RF has the best usability of any rangefinder. Titanium covers are a huge plus. After 20 years of use, the paint has worn off mine showing the titanium in places, but it doesn’t have a single dent. Motor drive is built in. 1/4000th for shooting wide open in daylight. Shutter speeds show in viewfinder like the ZM. The viewfinder mag is lower though. That could be either good or bad depending on the lenses you use (and if you wear glasses). For 28/35 it is nice. Not so much for longer lenses. I blocked the 135 frame lines on mine. I also blocked the 75 ones as well just to clean up the finder. They still cost less than a Leica although prices are climbing. If Leica had made it the prices would be astronomical these days. Imagine the already ludicrously expensive M7, then add the expense of the features of the Hexar. Downside of the Hexar- repair.

I’d pass on the Bessas these days. Way overpriced for the cheapness they are. The ZM is getting real expensive as well. Both cost quite a bit more than they sold for new. The ZM does have ostensibly the best finder. The rubber they used for the cover degrades though. The well used ones tend to look pretty bad too since the paint seems to age poorly. That doesn’t affect the function of the camera though. Then again the zinc Leicas age poorly too.

I’ve thought about getting an M7 myself but don’t really want to pay for one these days. I’d rather use the $xxxx difference for film. Though I kind of wish I bought one 20 ish years ago when they had the a la carte program.

Kodachromeguy · Sep 13, 2024

radialMelt said:
I hear the Zeiss Ikon ZM finder is a joy to use on account of being huge. I always wanted to try one. Apparently rangefinder calibration is extremely difficult to do though, which given limited repair techs, seems a bit of a risk to me.

Are there many issues with the Zeiss Ikon ZM? I can't see obvious failure/OK patterns based on a quick check of user reports. Hamish at 35MMC liked his example.

brian steinberger · Sep 13, 2024

I just recently got a Zeiss Ikon ZM. I also have a Leica M2 I was using before. I haven’t shot the M2 since I got the ZM. I’m an aperautre priority shooter and the camera metering is great, viewfinder is great. Love the single framelines for 35 and 50, just like the M2. I was worried about reliability/repairability with the ZM but life is short and I’m a shooter. Just gonna use it and so far I love it.

radialMelt · Sep 13, 2024

Kodachromeguy said:
Are there many issues with the Zeiss Ikon ZM? I can't see obvious failure/OK patterns based on a quick check of user reports. Hamish at 35MMC liked his example.

I have never used one, but researched it a couple times. The only complaint I saw repeated a few times was if the RF goes out of calibration it is very difficult to fix. I guess the adjustments are not nearly as accessible as they are on a Leica for example.

Marcelo Paniagua · Sep 13, 2024

Ballinderry-Michael said:
I have a Bessa-T and could recommend that model - but you have to have a separate viewfinder for each lens you use. The rangefinder is clear and accurate. The shutter is manual: two LR/SR44 batteries (or one DL1/3N) power the meter.

Build is maybe not perfect: mine came from a reputable dealer who hadn't noticed a slightly loose accessory mount, which I didn't spot either until some wonky sea horizons turned up. Apart from that, once it's fixed it will be a pleasure to use.

Yeah a fine camera. When I did a M mount cleanup, I just keep my M6, Leica IIIF and the Bessa T. You get used to the separated viewfinder pretty soon.

A fine camera, although not a AE camera. Bessa R2A/R3A are. IMHO, I would suggest going the M7/Ikon route in instead of the Bessa's, since there Leica M7 has better support. I think Camera Quest do repairs for the Bessa but that was a few years ago so not sure if they do that anymore. Also, those are quite overpriced so I think either the M7 or the Ikon are a better option.

Chan Tran · Sep 13, 2024

beemermark said:
M7. Most internet postings are more about the electronics will fail rather then any actual reports of them actually failing. I bought mine new around 2005 and had DAG do a CLA (as insurance) in 2022. Great camera. And because of the similarity between the early cameras not much of a learning curve. The metering works very well.

Electronic will fail yes. But what won't fail?

Marcelo Paniagua · Sep 13, 2024

Chan Tran said:
Electronic will fail yes. But what won't fail?

Correct. I have cameras from the 80's (Bronica ETRS, Olympus OM4,etc.) that they are still going strong without any issue. I mean, they are 40 years old camera!.

Mechanical cameras had failed to me too in the past (I'm seeing you, pile of Zorkies/Feds/Mamiya C3 lens) so not really worried about electronics IF they are fully working when I get the camera. Just like when I buy a mechanical camera

craigclu · Sep 13, 2024

I've had great luck with the Hexars. Very intuitive to use and gratifying to handle. I had a Zeiss (never bonded with it). I also have an M6 and CLE but consistently grab the Konica, it seems. Both of the Leicas have required service but the Hexar hums along after 20+ years

aw614 · Sep 13, 2024

Knocks on wood, the issues I've had with the Minolta CLE I bought this year have been mostly mechanical rangefinder specific, ie. rangefinder alignment off, hazy viewfinder, rangefinder cam being slow. They've been fixed by my local camera shop.

BradS · Sep 15, 2024

Well, I think that if you must have an M-mount, then the Leica M7 is still the best option. Those with serial numbers greater than 288 0000 are rumored to have fewer electronic gremlins. I Personally don't get on well with (love/hate) rangefinder cameras and so, I'd prefer a Nikon F3HP.

Kodachromeguy · Sep 15, 2024

BradS said:
Those with serial numbers greater than 288 0000 are rumored to have fewer electronic gremlins.

What were the electronic gremlins? I vaguely recall reading about some issues. Would M7s with lower numbers have been repaired by now?

BradS · Sep 15, 2024

Kodachromeguy said:
What were the electronic gremlins? I vaguely recall reading about some issues. Would M7s with lower numbers have been repaired by now?

Other than the DX code reader issue, I honestly don't know. Could just be a lot of fear and gnashing of teeth about what could happen. I never paid very close attention so, it's all kinda fuzzy to me. I'm not even certain about the serial number range, it might be greater than 286 0000 or 287 0000.....but it is something that starts with 28x xxxx.

radialMelt · Sep 16, 2024

Fairly certain the serial number thing is regarding when they started including the optical (as opposed to electromechanical) DX code reader, and/or the MP viewfinder upgrade.

mshchem · Sep 16, 2024

I purchased a beautiful M7, had to return, electronics were bad, all the LEDs were lighting up at once. Personally I would think about the Cosina made cameras or the Konica.
The M7 is a lovely camera that is certain!!

dave olson · Oct 2, 2024

I bought my M7 new when they were first introduced, never been serviced, never failed me, numerous trips to Europe and took the M7, wet or dry, summer or winter in Munich. I can't say enough about it. That said I acquired a Besa R3a several years ago. It is noticeably lighter than the M's. It performs well without any problem and it's a fun camera to shoot.

kiss-o-matic · Oct 19, 2024

I own 2 Ikon ZM's (accidentally won a second one in an auction, but it was back when it was only $600) and a CLE. I like them both. No issues w/ the ZMs except after dropping them. The CLE I've had serviced twice (relatively cheaply all things considered) but note, it is my Burning Man camera. That event inhospitable for anything - especially a fragile camera. The fact that it takes at least 3 trips out there to make it unusable is a sign of its durability IMHO.

AE camera with Leica M mount: best alternative for 2024?

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