Advice wanted for a 35mm SLR for a friend

[Steve Smith]

I have a friend who wants to get into film photography. He has a digital compact which he hates - in fact, he has given it to his girlfriend.

I took a few cameras round this evening of various types such as TLR, 6x6 folder, 35mm rangefinder and 35mm SLR.

After handling them all we came to the conclusion that, although he liked the rangefinder principle, he would initially like to try a 35mm SLR.

I took my Nikon FG which is a fairly compact manual focus camera with an internal meter which may be used manually or in aperture priority or program modes. He wants me to find him a camera with similar features.

I know about most of the Nikon range but my knowledge is lacking in other makes such as Canon, Pentax, Olympus and Minolta.

I would like to know which cameras from other manufacturers are similar. i.e. manual focus, internal metering with manual and aperture priority. Program mode would be useful but not essential. TTL flash compatibility (which the FG has) is not necessary.

Your advice would be appreciated.



Steve.

 

[TheDreadPirateRobins]

Canon AE-1 Program has these features, IIRC. I am not a huge Canon user but my wife, sister, and dad all love this camera.

 

[eng1er]

I'd second the AE-1 Program. It was my first SLR. I've had it twenty-one years and it's never given me a problem. They can be had very cheap (I see them for US$30-50), use excellent FD lenses which are also very reasonable these days. Even though my main 35mm stable for the last 15 years has been EOS-1s and 3s, I still go to the AE-1 when I want something light and inconspicuous. A-1 might also be a good choice in the Canon flavor.

 

[Jeff Kubach]

Canon A-1 is a another choice. Pentax K-1000 could be a choice also, but doesn't have aperture priority mode.

Jeff

 

[Vonder]

Neither the AE-1 nor A-1 has TTL flash. If you think you might want that someday, I'd recommend a Minolta X-700 or X-570. The X-700 has program mode, while the 570 is aperture priority.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Neither the AE-1 nor A-1 has TTL flash. If you think you might want that someday, I'd recommend a Minolta X-700 or X-570. The X-700 has program mode, while the 570 is aperture priority.

Go for the Canon T90! It may sound preposterous, but you'll grow with that camera and it is still a force to be reckoned with. There are others: in the 1980s I used the Canon A1 and still fondly remember it as one of the great cameras of the era along with the T90. Most of the old Canons are collector's items (like the Canon's EOS 1, 1N and RS). I haven't seen a 2H Minolta SLR for years: and there are lots of pro dealers around me which haver everything from the marques but no Minolta. Very strange.

 

[eng1er]

While I certainly agree that the EOS-1 and 1N are great cameras, I don't know that I'd call them collector's items yet, at least as far as price is concerned (I must admit that I sort of collect them). Pricewise, those bodies can be had for US$200-300. Even a used 1V can't fetch more than about US$650 despite retailing new for US$1450. Fine with me, all the more I can "collect." Never owned a T90, jumped to the EOS system straight from my AE-1, though I might have to pick one up if I find a bargain.

 

[MattKing]

Olympus OM 2n is a good choice for manual and aperture preferred metering, plus TTl flash. For program mode you would need an OM 2s, which I have, and like, but some of them have battery consumption issues.

A more "consumer" grade example would be an OM G (OM 20 in some parts of the world). It is not as robust or full featured, but it is lighter, and very capable.

Matt

 

[Colin Corneau]

I'm a Nikon fan. The FM2's are fantastic cameras, you can practically hammer nails with them.

That said, the T90 is a pretty interesting suggestion. I recall when they came out -- they really rocked the camera world and were clearly 'before their time.' The innovations that camera brought in are still in use today, at least in terms of layout and general construction.

If you must go Canon, it's worth a look.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

I'm a Nikon fan. The FM2's are fantastic cameras, you can practically hammer nails with them.

That said, the T90 is a pretty interesting suggestion. I recall when they came out -- they really rocked the camera world and were clearly 'before their time.' The innovations that camera brought in are still in use today, at least in terms of layout and general construction.

If you must go Canon, it's worth a look.

Yes the T90 did set the epoch for the future: there were a lot of reviews at the time that recited chapter and verse on its strengths (and weakness: power consumption). I think it was also the last FD-mount body before the first EOS came into being with the all-new EOS electronic mount. I can also speak from experience as the one-time owner of a Nikon FM2 and later an FE2. But my biggest favourite was the Olympus OM4 long before the T90 (I bought my OM4 in 1985). Even today, there are fine art photographers who swear by the OM4: it's multi-spot metering, hi/lo bias control and compact size make it quite a snazzy job.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

(...)Even a used 1V can't fetch more than about US$650 despite retailing new for US$1450(...)

The EOS 1V is overcooked. You definitely don't need that many metering points clustered in the central area, nor the volume of TTL flash options — or its weight! I've used one (on loan) and felt alienated by its high-tech approach. Call me old-fashioned but even with the EOS 1N I've yet to find myself in dire need of any more metering points or technology after 14 years!

 

[eng1er]

The EOS 1V is overcooked. You definitely don't need that many metering points clustered in the central area, nor the volume of TTL flash options — or its weight! I've used one (on loan) and felt alienated by its high-tech approach. Call me old-fashioned but even with the EOS 1N I've yet to find myself in dire need of any more metering points or technology after 14 years!

I would agree that the additional bells and whistles on the 1V are things that I typically don't use. My primary 35mm camera is an original EOS-1 that I got in 1991, its features suit me fine. I picked up a used 1V because it was a bargain and I wanted another 1 for a backup (I also have a 3). As for weight, I personally like the heft of the 1 series cameras, in fact I put the booster on all my EOS cameras because I like the ergonomics and I'm steadier with the hefty body. I take them off if I need to conserve weight for backpacking or something, or if I want to be less conspicuous. True, the 1V probably maxes out the features necessary for a 35mm SLR, but I love EOS-1s, so the 1V gets a spot in my stable, too. I guess I'm proving your point that they ARE collectors items!

 

[JBrunner]

I've got a T90 around here someplace.... IIRC it cannot be used fully manually, but must be set to Av or Tv.. is that correct, or am I high?

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

I would agree that the additional bells and whistles on the 1V are things that I typically don't use. My primary 35mm camera is an original EOS-1 that I got in 1991, its features suit me fine. I picked up a used 1V because it was a bargain and I wanted another 1 for a backup (I also have a 3). As for weight, I personally like the heft of the 1 series cameras, in fact I put the booster on all my EOS cameras because I like the ergonomics and I'm steadier with the hefty body. I take them off if I need to conserve weight for backpacking or something, or if I want to be less conspicuous. True, the 1V probably maxes out the features necessary for a 35mm SLR, but I love EOS-1s, so the 1V gets a spot in my stable, too. I guess I'm proving your point that they ARE collectors items!

Yes, I too have a booster on my EOS 1N and vertical grip on EOS 5 (which I have had since 1994). The 'fit' of the EOS1N to my smallish hands was a revelation: it is superbly comfortable in portrait or landscape position. The EOS 1V was just too big and heavy for me but had the trademark solid, fluid controls and precision of operation. I have lithium batteries in my PDBE1 that brings the weight down over normal AA alkaline batteries (heavier); these batteries have been in since 2004 (I do not know how many rolls I've shot in that time). A friend has an OM4 and I still love to handle it but it's much more angular ("sharp") in its ergonomics rather than the fluid roundness of the T90, the EOS 1N and to a lesser extent, my old battlehorse, EOS 5.

I might one day buy a T90, OM4 and A1 just for "collecting" and to reminisce over those glorious days of learning so long ago.

I presume you don't bushwalk long distances with 3 bodies in tow? I carry only the 1N and EOS 5 and a small AF digi—strictly for reccé runs. That's quite enough with a gaggle of lenses thrown in for company too!

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

I've got a T90 around here someplace.... IIRC it cannot be used fully manually, but must be set to Av or Tv.. is that correct, or am I high?

What do you mean "it cannot be used fully manually"? By dint of a fault, or an abstract reference to a mode (Tv, Av, M, Prog, etc.)? I can recall, in my days as solo bicycle touring with the T90 bouncing joyfully in my big handlebar bag up front, that I never used the camera on manual: I learnt the ropes using Av (decades later, I still prefer that mode). I use my EOS1N in manual mode when making parallel metering tests in difficult lighting with a Sekonic L758D (discussion in separate posts).

 

[k_jupiter]

As always, I recommend the FM2. Completely mechanical, completely reliable, titanium shutter, 1/250 sync speed, light weight, ergonomically almost perfect, and donkey to the finest set of glass you can buy for reasonable money (Nikor AI). A FM2 with a 50mm 1.4, a 105mm 2.5, and a 35mm 2.0 and your friend is set till the big camera bug hits 'em. I have been shooting this setup without the 50mm for the last 22 years. Never been in the shop, never failed me.

tim in san jose

 

[JBrunner]

What do you mean "it cannot be used fully manually"? By dint of a fault, or an abstract reference to a mode (Tv, Av, M, Prog, etc.)? I can recall, in my days as solo bicycle touring with the T90 bouncing joyfully in my big handlebar bag up front, that I never used the camera on manual: I learnt the ropes using Av (decades later, I still prefer that mode). I use my EOS1N in manual mode when making parallel metering tests in difficult lighting with a Sekonic L758D (discussion in separate posts).

Meaning you cannot choose both the aperture and the shutter speed for a given exposure. (M mode) If I remember correctly, I think it is Av only, or perhaps Av and Prog only. I could be wrong.

 

[eng1er]

Meaning you cannot choose both the aperture and the shutter speed for a given exposure. (M mode) If I remember correctly, I think it is Av only, or perhaps Av and Prog only. I could be wrong.

Shooting fully manual with a T90 is just like any other FD Canon with AE modes: 1. put the camera in Tv mode, 2. select shutter speed, 3. select aperture using aperture ring on lens. Obviously, EOS cameras don't work in this manner because you must set your aperture with the controls on the camera--EF lenses have no aperture ring. Although the T90 shares a lot with its EOS successors, this is one holdover of the FD system. I guess they could have had an M mode in which you left the aperture ring on the A position and dialed in the aperture for the camera to stop it down, but maybe they didn't want to add another control wheel when you could just do it with the lens. Speed's probably not important if you're working in manual mode.

 

[Steve Smith]

.. is that correct, or am I high?

Could it be both?


Thanks for all of your suggestions. I will start looking.

A bit more background: My friend wants to get into photography, as I mentioned earlier. He is a session musician and, amongst other things, would like to have a camera to take shots of fellow musicians. He wants to document some of the sessions and can hopefully take pictures which are not accessable for most people e.g. he was playing a session with pedal steel maestro B J Cole this summer at Toerag studios which is famed for its vintage recording equipment. He would have liked a photographic record of it.

I will probably suggest using Ilford Delta 3200 for a grainy look in available light. For this, I think aperture priority will be very useful - especially for a beginner who is actually there to do something else who doesn't necessarily want to or have time to manually meter and adjust.



Steve.

 

[Laurent]

I guess they could have had an M mode in which you left the aperture ring on the A position and dialed in the aperture for the camera to stop it down, but maybe they didn't want to add another control wheel when you could just do it with the lens.

This is what the A-1 used for the Av mode, I found it very clever at this time.

The T90 will even offer a closed-down metering, and also the highlight/shadow control (1) meter the spot that matters for you, 2) offset it from zone V to whatever zone you want to put it to).

I loved this camera, it's only pitfall being a shutter that becomes sticky if unused for too long.

 

[GeoffHill]

How about an EOS camera forther down the pecking order than the 1n or 1v. Sure, they're great cameras, but a little over the top for someone who wants to get into film photography.

The eos 300x, or 300v have 90% of the features of the 1n, for a lot lower cost, and a lot less weight.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

How about an EOS camera forther down the pecking order than the 1n or 1v. Sure, they're great cameras, but a little over the top for someone who wants to get into film photography.

The eos 300x, or 300v have 90% of the features of the 1n, for a lot lower cost, and a lot less weight.

You are quite right. I steer newbies well away from the "gloss and clamour" of hanging a 1N or something bigger or perceived as "better" because it has more technology packed into it. My nieces love the "just for fun" photos with "Uncle's heavy box brownie" —ugh! Beginners will like the EOS 5 and it will deliver. It's a popular model in some art schools I know of here. Others are the rather "love them or loathe them" retro-styled EOS 50/50E (both discontinued).

Matter of fact, I served my (EOS) "apprencticeship" over 10 years using an EOS 5 working with an accessory EOS 50E (while studying the methodology of theory and application of Canon's TSE 24L perspective control lens over a 7-year time span). The 50E was pensioned off on eBay a few years back. The '5', still in use, has taken fair weather and foul over years: it has a problem with its external display fading (dating back to an incident in Tasmania in 1999): technicians found it was caused by long term exposure to salty air which 'arcs over' tiny connections in places where there is very high humidity. Not repairable economically; it has no detrimental effect on camera operation or accuracy (obviously when the displays fade out, it gets booted into the "Recovery Room": a warm environment used for drying clothes!), but it IS a salutary warning of long term exposure to seaside areas (I have never lived by the sea, but have shot thousands of images in that environment).

There are lots and lots of cameras suitable for people just getting into (or back into) analogue photography. I'd go bonkers reciting them. Got with what you feel comfortable, happy and confident with.

 

[Andy38]

Why not a Nikon FG ?
Your friend wants you "to find him a camera with similar features" ; and you can explain him how to use a camera you know .
With a 50 f1,4 lens to begin , it's possible to get into photography , even in low light .

 

[Steve Smith]

Why not a Nikon FG ?.

Absolutely. That one was the first on my list.

Together with a fast 50mm (as you suggest) and a 28-70mm or similar.


Steve.

 

[takef586]

I suggest one of the Nikons like FE2 or FM3A,they have a wonderful shutter with full range of speeds, big and clear viewfinder, 1/250 flash synchro, self release tied to mirror lock up, a very compact and sturdy body, and you can put Zeiss ZF lenses on them too... I suggest to look for the FM3A kit with the Nikkor 45P as a starter, this lens is a pancake making the camera hardly bigger than a Leica M, and stopped down a bit delivers the best Tessar like image quality.