Advice re. a magazine using one of my images uncredited ...

nick mulder · Dec 22, 2007

Hello,

Recently a friend of mine was profiled in a magazine and was asked if he had any images of himself that he'd like used in the article. He asked me for some I had of him and I obliged, thinking at least I'd get a credit and what would turn out to be my first published image, nothing fancy - but the first nevertheless...

As it turns out, there it is in all its cropped and gamma/color 'corrected' glory :rolleyes: - uncredited unlike it would seem every other image in the mag - I cant get much information from my friend re. the discussions that were had regarding the image, or indeed if there was any aside from 'here it is' (we are both for various reasons the busiest we have been in our lives) - I'm kind of stuck here and regardless its not as if there is anything that can be done about it anyway ...

My interest lies in avoiding situations like this in the future - i.e. being a bit more in control of access to my images... But at the same time I want to get exposure.

Conflicting interests.

I'm keen to approach this magazine and others with examples of my work, but am wondering if I should mention the crediting 'issue' or just leave it as a lesson learned ...

Any advice appreciated !

Nick

SuzanneR · Dec 22, 2007

It's best to deal with magazines directly. Since your friend submitted the photograph, you have no idea what was discussed regarding credit. Next time, you contact the magazine directly or have your friend give them your contact information.

When you submit pictures for possible publication you should give them a submission form that spells out that a credit should accompany the photograph, and you should negotiate a price for its use. Magazines often have a set budget for a one time use. If it's agreeable to you, then go for it. There may be some wiggle room to negotiate a bit more, but if it gets too steep for them, they won't use it, and they won't call you back.

One more point about credit... if they fail to credit you it is, (or was when I worked at a magazine) a standard practice that you can charge double the rate.

Chalk it up to lesson learned. It's your photograph... you keep control of when and to whom it should be submitted, and keep copies of all submissions for reference and tracking, and be sure to stay in touch until it's returned to you.

Pinholemaster · Dec 22, 2007

Most importantly is to have the name spelled correctly on the check.

copake_ham · Dec 22, 2007

I've no idea how you provided the image.

If it was a print - next time put a "rights reserved" comment on the back.

Chances are, in the circumstance you present, the magazine thought that your friend had the rights (much as an actor/actress carries a portfolio of "publicity shots").

Consider it a cheap "lesson learned" and, if there is a next time, instruct your friend to have the magazine contact you for the photo.

nick mulder · Dec 22, 2007

Digitally - a neg scan of a B+W image ...

Perhaps my beef really lies with my friend for not communicating with the mag properly, but I'm not going to split hairs with him over it any more than I have already (nor hold a grudge )

Still, thanks for the advice! - like I mentioned earlier I'm keen to get into the music scene here but as photographer, interesting people and industry...

I'll battle my through the details and learn the hard way if need be - but any heads up/info appreciated

david b · Dec 22, 2007

Have them do a "correction" in the following issue.

copake_ham · Dec 22, 2007

nick mulder said:
Digitally - a neg scan of a B+W image ...

Perhaps my beef really lies with my friend for not communicating with the mag properly, but I'm not going to split hairs with him over it any more than I have already (nor hold a grudge )

Still, thanks for the advice! - like I mentioned earlier I'm keen to get into the music scene here but as photographer, interesting people and industry...

I'll battle my through the details and learn the hard way if need be - but any heads up/info appreciated

I think the lesson is learned - always keep control of your work. But also, the friendship is worth preserving - no harm was intended. The fact your friend was the subject of a magazine article is all the more reason to keep him as a friend!

david b said:
Have them do a "correction" in the following issue.

Excellent idea!

Explain the situation to the editor. Make it clear that you're not seeking compensation (you won't get it anyway) but that would like the professional recognition. If asked, agree to sign over the "rights" and consider that a concession on their part.

Make sure your friend knows what you're doing so he can vouche for your "bona fides" as the photographer.

Konical · Dec 22, 2007

Good Evening, Nick,

You could be worse off. About twenty years ago, I submitted several 4 x 5 transparencies in response to a call from the University of Missouri which was planning to publish a regional photo book. One of my images, a St. Louis Gateway Arch shot, was accepted. The payment (known ahead of time) was $30 plus several free copies of the book. No problem--until I saw the image, properly credited but reversed so that the Arch appeared to be on the east bank of the Mississippi (!), printed across two pages in an issue of St. Louis magazine. I contacted the magazine requesting payment at standard rates; the only response was to the effect that the magazine's use of my photo was simple "publicity" for the book it originally appeared in and that, therefore, it, along with photos by several other photographers, could be used without any payment.

It was apparent to me that someone involved in publishing the book knew someone on the editorial staff of the magazine and must have said, "Hey, how about some neat (free) photos for your magazine?" Win one for the book publishers, win one for the magazine publishers, lose one for the photographers. If I had been making a living as a photographer, it would have been an even more unpleasant experience. And I never did figure out why someone with editorial offices a few blocks from the Arch could have reversed the photo.

Konical

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 23, 2007

Regarding the crop, I've found that whenever I've provided an environmental portrait for something like an author photo that is going to be reproduced small, like on a book jacket flap or a website, it always gets cropped to just the face. If you know or can guess the reproduction size, you can plan for it, so the cropped version will look good.

gr82bart · Dec 23, 2007

nick mulder said:
Any advice appreciated !

You should be using this lesson to your advantage instead of claiming victimhood.

For example, what's the name of the magazine? Take a different approach - instead of "I wasn't credited", why not "Hey folks, I have one my pics in so and so magazine!" Make sure you list the magazine as one of your own credits on your website if you have one, bio, etc... They got something for free, now you should get something for free from them.

Half full or half empty. Your choice.

Regards, Art.

Les McLean · Dec 23, 2007

My advice is never give any image FREE OF CHARGE, chances are that it will not be treated with any respect or value by the magazine or company receiving the image. Always negotiate directly with the publisher to establish the conditions of the deal. There are many fair minded publishers out there but as you have found there are also a number of sharks who have little respect for the time and effort you have put into making the image they used.

I cannot deny that to have your first image published is quite exciting and gratifying, those of us published have all experienced that feeling. However, to the less than ethical publisher it is simply another image that cost them nothing to illustrate an article or fill a space in the magazine.

George has already said this experience has been a relatively inexpensive lesson so be a little more mercenary the next time you are asked to provide an image for publication. I'm sorry to sound so cynical but nearly 20 years of being involved with publishers have pushed me down this road. Happily, they are not all the same and I wish you luck in any future ventures into having work published.

Previous posts here have passed on some good advice which is one of the strengths of the community we have in APUG.

David H. Bebbington · Dec 23, 2007

Agree wth previous posts - the route by which you supplied the picture was too long and ill-defined for you to hope for any redress. They probably wouldn't have paid much of a fee, anyhow!

Asking for a printed correction - have you ever read "The Diary of A Nobody" by George and Weedon Grossmith? The hilarious account of a newspaper's revenge on someone asking for a correction would make me think twice!

Backwards pictures: Layout artists are apparently taught that if they ever design a page with a picture looking "out" of it, they will be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail. This applies to pictures including readable text, signs, logos, etc., resulting in musicians playing "Rednef" or "Nosbig" guitars, etc. The layout guys WILL NOT LISTEN!

Credits in general: Layout people also apparently believe that picture agencies take pictures (even if they acquired the rights 50 years after the pictures were taken). You see pictures of WWII credited to Getty or Corbis, in my own case the small number of my historical pictures that still get printed regularly are credited to Retna Pictures and not me! Again, there's little that can be done!

Regards,

David

SuzanneR · Dec 23, 2007

I'm inclined to agree David... a lot of magazines no longer have picture editors. When I worked for a magazine one of my biggest responsibilities was giving correct credits. The layout folks didn't seem to have any idea where the photographs came from.

We also had a policy that every photograph be credited. Alas... most magazines have cut photo staff, and there really aren't a lot of publications committed to good photographs that are well edited and presented. It's a shame.

removed account4 · Dec 23, 2007

sorry to hear of your troubles.
get a copy of the page you were published on
and include it in your portfolio ( "tear sheet" )
don't forget to (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

john

Monophoto · Dec 23, 2007

Nick -

I am the editor of a magazine for a professional society, and my policy is to provide credits wherever possible.

Because we support a professional society, we publish a lot of "grips and grins" photographs. In those instances where I have access to the source of the photograph, I always make sure that a credit line is included. But all too often, the material comes to me with no attribution at all.

In the good old days of analog photography, a rubber stamp on the back of the print would usually solve this problem. Today, however, even an analog print is going to be scanned into a digital image, and it is up to whoever scans it to attach a credit line..

Sad to say that in the 21st century, "gentlemen" don't wear ties, "please" and "thank you" are disappearing from our vocabulary, and credit lines aren't always published.

Trevor Crone · Dec 23, 2007

Nick,

Just make sure all future material you send out for publication has your details with it. If its a hard copy stamp it in some way with the copywrite symbol, (c) then your name, followed by 'all reproduction rights reserved'.
Sadly there is no guarantee that you will always get a credit but you are clearly stating that you are the copywrite holder and most editors will not only credit you but pay you a fee, either at their standard rates or one negotiated with you.

If the material is sent as an attachment via email just state in the email the necessary details and the conditions for its use.

With over 30 years of dealing with various publishers, editors etc I've only once had to threaten legal action and that was for material used out of context. Thankfully a settlement was agreed before legal action was undertaken.

I can only endorse what Les has said "never give any image free of charge".

Good luck with your future endevours.

Trevor.

nick mulder · Dec 23, 2007

Thanks for all the replies - I've sent them an email introducing myself as the photographer of the image and politely (well, I hope it reads that way) asked if they could credit the photo in a future publication in a corrections panel - a sort of abstract/indirect 'win' for my ego if it goes ahead... I'm glad I did it, regardless of the outcome as its better in some ways to stick to principles (if you have the time that is) - I guess I'll learn how much my principles and theirs intersect soon enough, doubt they are checking the inbox on xmas eve :rolleyes:

happy xmas all!

Nick

David H. Bebbington · Jan 8, 2008

Les McLean said:
My advice is never give any image FREE OF CHARGE ...

This advice is all very well, but ...

Very large quantities of images are supplied to the press free of charge as PR material, in many if not most cases accompanied by text material in the form of finished articles which can be slotted into publications with little or no change. Many newspapers and magazines have surprisingly small editorial teams and so are very keen to fill their columns with material which needs little or no input or editing by staffers. The supplier of the material in turn is delighted if his/her product, organization etc, gets a mention and is not concerned if the photographer or author gets a byline.

In almost all cases, if material is used without payment or credit where the author expected this, this is because the author has failed to make clear that his/her material is not a PR freebie!

nick mulder · Jan 8, 2008

update,

They got back to me yesterday and will be crediting it in the online version and have also mentioned they'd like to see more work - possibility it could be put into a photographic profile sometime in the near future ...

Its a free local music mag - maybe I should aim a little higher though as once its published its relatively done and dusted ? The pics are from two tours I went on with a very popular local band

David H. Bebbington · Jan 8, 2008

nick mulder said:
update,

They got back to me yesterday and will be crediting it in the online version and have also mentioned they'd like to see more work - possibility it could be put into a photographic profile sometime in the near future ...

Its a free local music mag - maybe I should aim a little higher though as once its published its relatively done and dusted ? The pics are from two tours I went on with a very popular local band

I think you'll find the deal with music photography is that major mags will expect to see some tearsheets (published work) before they commission you to do (paid) work for them. This in turn gets you taken seriously enough by major music venues for them to give you a photographer's pass, without which you will of course not get in! Music photography is one of those areas in any case where a certain amount of practice is required so that you can operate your camera in semi-darkness and get correctly exposed and timed pictures. Unfortunately, this area of photography is regarded as glamourous, so lots of people want to get in and photography users are less than generous to newcomers. So, to give you a short answer - yes! Move onwards and upwards as soon as you can!

DKT · Jan 8, 2008

In my experience, headshots and the like, are often not credited. It's like a designer taking a credit for a business card. For collateral and editorial work, of course you would expect to be credited, but as a staff photographer, I'd say 99% of what I shoot is credited to the employer, but that's the agreement of the job really--they own everything. When I worked freelance, and was a stringer for newspapers as well, I used a typewriter actually-- and wrote all my cutlines and captions right on the back of the print like it was piece of typing paper, and then used stamps that had either the right usages--one time editorial only, all rights reserved etc--and then a copyright___(date) stamp and then again with another that said that all uses must include a credit line with my name on it as it appeared on the stamp--and then yet another with my contact information.

Now, the copyright/credit line stuff is more metadata sourcing really--but we use the IPTC and XMP type metadata to embed the source info, usages, and the whole cutline and even keywords for searches. If you use a program like Photomechanic, or Adobe Bridge, you can do this, or just use the File Info (IPTC) on the earlier versions of Photoshop. Since you deal with publications, chances are they will be looking for this information anyways--almost all the outside publications we deal with now, ask for embedded information in the files. You can also rights protect the images somewhat, or you can embed the copyright info and even a hotlink to your website or email etc. the way you can handle this information, is actually very useful in terms of tracking your images and making sure that information stays with them. The downside is just more time doing data entry really, but it's worth it..

Kirk Keyes · Jan 8, 2008

Your copyright info should be in the file's metadata.

SilkAngel · Jan 9, 2008

There is some really great advice here for anyone thinking of publishing any of his or her work. And yes, always try to take the positive approach. You are much better off for it.

Stephen Frizza · Jan 9, 2008

I had a leading fashion magazine in Sydney steal 132 images off me for use their tenth birthday issue which hit the shelves last year. They also did not get the publishing rights from about 50 other photographers. I was unpleased to say the least and when I approached this magazine apart from being told it was a privilege to have my work in their magazine, to which i said it wasn't!!! I was then sworn at by the editor before being hung up on. So Ive simply left it to my legal team to take care of.

I feel if a magazine publishes anything of mine for profit without a prior agreement and they are not willing to compromise after the publishing then bring in the Lawyers!
I am so thankful that the use of my images comes with strict written contracts and would suggest if dealing with magazines an agreement is made in writing!

Contract! contract!! contract!!!

David H. Bebbington · Jan 9, 2008

Stephen Frizza said:
I had a leading fashion magazine in Sydney steal 132 images off me for use their tenth birthday issue which hit the shelves last year. They also did not get the publishing rights from about 50 other photographers. I was unpleased to say the least and when I approached this magazine apart from being told it was a privilege to have my work in their magazine, to which i said it wasn't!!! I was then sworn at by the editor before being hung up on. So Ive simply left it to my legal team to take care of.

I feel if a magazine publishes anything of mine for profit without a prior agreement and they are not willing to compromise after the publishing then bring in the Lawyers!
I am so thankful that the use of my images comes with strict written contracts and would suggest if dealing with magazines an agreement is made in writing!

Contract! contract!! contract!!!

Your story is amazing! Were these images which the mag had previously run (by permission) and still had on file, or was it a straight rip-off of material acquired nefariously?

Regards,

David

Advice re. a magazine using one of my images uncredited ...

nick mulder

SuzanneR

Moderator

Pinholemaster

copake_ham

nick mulder

david b

copake_ham

Konical

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

gr82bart

Les McLean

David H. Bebbington

SuzanneR

Moderator

removed account4

Monophoto

Trevor Crone

nick mulder

David H. Bebbington

nick mulder

David H. Bebbington

DKT

Kirk Keyes

SilkAngel

Stephen Frizza

David H. Bebbington

Advice re. a magazine using one of my images uncredited ...

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