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Advice on VC fiber based paper

Mainecoonmaniac

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I need some advice on some VC fiber based paper. I've used Ilford MG FB paper with Ilford paper developer combination for years and I like it a lot. I noticed in Freestyle a bunch of paper that I never tried from Eastern Europe. I tried Foma and I'm pretty pleased with the result. Has anybody tried Adox, Arista EDU, Fotokemika? How about paper manufactured in England called Kentmere? I'm partial to neutral and warm toned papers. Thanks.
 
One vote for Kentmere Fineprint FBVC glossy. I have used it with Ilford Multigrade developer in 20x24 and 16x20 since Kodak stopped making Polymax FBVC. Right now B&H is selling 16x20 with free delivery. It is a cool to neutral look that has the added advantage of drying flatter than either Polymax or Ilford Multigrade FBVC. They have a warm toned version that I have not tried.

Since you can't see my work I would add that it gets into about four shows a year, one of them a five state regional. Thirty of my 7x17 contact prints just came home from 15 months as a solo show in Cleveland, Ohio's history museum.

John Powers
 
Kentmere is excellent paper as John says. Foma has so many different papers that you would have to be more specific for any of us to comment.
Adox has the old Agfa MCC 111 emulsion coated on a whiter base, which is an excellent paper, I tested it in a pre-production run and it's every bit as good as the original.
Adox in general seems to have very high quality and I hear of many people that like them, but I don't know anything about them myself.
Fotokemika has two fiber papers, and they are neutral to slightly warm. The Varycon is variable contrast, and is on an unbleached base, so the whites will not be as crisp as those on Ilford. But it's lovely paper, one that you have to work a little hard than Ilford to get used to, in my opinion. The other Fotokemika paper is Emaks, which is a graded paper. If you don't tone it, there is more than a resemblance to the Varycon, but toned it acts differently all together. The paper has a very long and beautiful tonal scale.

But before you switch papers - why are you switching? If you love Ilford's paper, and it works for you, what would cause you to change to a different brand?

- Thomas
 
I was using Ilford when I shot professionally. Now it's just a hobby and money is kinda tight right now. Ilford though very good paper is almost twice as much. You've given some great advice. I was hoping of finding an Ilford VC FB paper equivalent for less money.
 
If you're looking for something similar to the Ilford, I would first look at:
Adox MCC 111 and the Kentmere VC Fineprint. Maybe Foma Fomabrom Variant 111 might be possible as well.

I understand the issue of pricing. That's why I try to print on Ilford when I can, but sometimes use Foma. I can't afford it either.

- Thomas
 
Dear Mainecoonmaniac,

I've tried every brand you mentioned and they are all good. Will you like one (and using which developer)? Only one way to tell for sure. :>) Foma has a swatch book for sale that might help narrow down that product line for you.

Neal Wydra
 
Neal is correct, you'll have to decide what looks best to you from a bunch of good papers.

I'm in the MCC110 camp, just wish they'd start putting it in a 100 sheet box.

Mike
 
I've been a fan of Ilford Multigrade developer 1:9 dilution. What VC FB paper you recommend?
 
I haven't found a bad VC FB paper yet, I started with Multigrade went back to fixed Grade Record Rapid then MCC for years, eventually i found Polywarmyone too late, now I'm using Fomabrom 111, a wonderful 7 extremely versatile paper.

Ian
 
I haven't found any bad VC FB papers also. I bought some Foma paper and was pleasantly surprised. I had low expectations because it was made in the Czech Republic. I also use Freestyle's Arista EDU film it's also pretty good. All this stretches my photo budget. From all the great input, I'll just have to buy a box of the Easter European papers and try it out. Can't go broke doing it.
 
If you like neutral to warm tones, skip Kentmere (my personal favorite) because it is the coldest paper out there. I agree that all of the papers out there are worth using so I would consider price and availability. Some papers like Berger are really nice but they are quite expensive and good luck finding it in stock. Papers like Arista are inexpensive but they frequently change the manufacturer so it is not a good paper to use if you want to stick with something for awhile. However, on a cynical note, any paper that I settle on becomes extinct not long thereafter anyway. Below I copied a post of mine from earlier this year describing my unscientific paper test:

Current Paper Comparison Test

First, I apologize for being wordy.

Some years ago I decided to standardize on a single paper for most of my printing. At the time, I made a standard straight print on many of the available papers, few of which are available today. I tested Forte, Luminos, Zone VI Brilliant, Kodak Polymax FA, and Ilford MG. After blind comparison, I chose Kodak Polymax as my paper (I was secretly hoping for something more exotic but Kodak won fair and square.) Then, of course, Kodak promptly announced its exit from the paper business. I did a quick test of a few others and went with Kentmere Fineprint VC FB paper.

Some years have passed and I thought it was time to sample the Freestyle catalog and do another paper comparison. For film, I use BTZS methods with good results. I admit that for paper I am a bit more lax and simply print what looks good to me. So this paper test was fairly subjective. I chose a scene of a black lava flow from Hawaii that was abstract and therefore open to interpretation of how the print should look. I printed it straight with just subtle edge burning. I use TMAX film developed in XTOL 1:1. For printing I use a Beseler Dichro 45S light source and a Schneider Apo-Componon 150 mm lens. The developer is Zone VI for 2 minutes. Selenium toning was somewhat arbitrary but I chose a dilution of 1:20 for 2 minutes. I made two prints on each paper, one for selenium toning and the other un-toned. I used the following 8x10 papers:
  • Adox MCC 110
  • Adox Vario Classic
  • Fomabrom variable contrast
  • Fomatone MG (a warmtone paper with velvet surface)
  • Kentmere Fineprint VC FB
  • Ilford MG IV FB
  • Oriental Warmtone
  • Varycon

I tried to print all of them at the same density and same contrast. The scene required about grade 3 filtration. I used the same filtration on all of the papers except two. Some observations:
Kentmere is the least contrasty and the fastest of the group
Ilford is the contrastiest of the group
The warmtone papers, Oriental Warmtone and Fomatone MG, are by far the slowest

After drying, I laid out the prints on the kitchen table which is well lit. I arranged them in pairs with the untoned version on top and the toned version on the bottom. Then I used a panel of three people (my wife, my 10 year old daughter, and myself) one at a time and blinded to the others to judge the prints on these characteristics:
  • Coldest: Kentmere (unanimous), followed by Ilford
  • Warmest: Fomabrom (unanimous)
  • Flattest: Kentmere
  • Curliest: Varycon and Ilford
  • Most responsive to selenium toner: Kentmere, Varycon
  • Least responsive to selenium toner: Ilford, Fomabrom
  • Favorite: Kentmere, Kentmere, Adox MCC 110
  • Least Favorite: Adox MCC 110, Fomabrom, Ilford

The two warmtone papers, Oriental and Fomatone MG, were very similar. Each had a yellowish paper base which diminished after drying. Each printed as a rather off-putting greenish-yellow black when untoned. Each was extremely responsive to toner and yielded a very nice brown-black final tone. I think these are both excellent warmtone papers even though I almost always prefer cold tone papers for my prints. I preferred the Oriental because it has a glossy surface rather than the “velvet” surface of the Fomatone MG which feels a bit like sandpaper and causes a slight loss of snap to the image.

For the other papers, the Varycon, Fomabrom, and Adox Vario Classic were very similar with Fomabrom being the warmest black of the bunch.

I was pleased that I preferred the Kentmere paper because it confirms my previous bias and I recently bought a huge supply! But I also realized that all of the papers were excellent and I felt confident that I could print well with any of them. So these are my verdicts:
  • Adox MCC 110 – ranked both favorite and least favorite! Slightly warm tone.
  • Adox Vario Classic, Fomabrom, Varycon - “middle of the road” papers. Varycon the cheapest.
  • Ilford MG IV FB – contrasty, cold toned, most expensive
  • Kentmere FP VC – unanimous favorite print, coldest when selenium toned, inexpensive
  • Fomatone MG – great warmtone paper with velvet surface, chocolate black with selenium
  • Oriental Warmtone - favorite warmtone paper with glossy surface, chocolate black with selenium

These are just my thoughts from a very un-scientific test. More like a wine tasting than a rigorous comparison but I thought it was fun.
 
Wow you're thorough!

Hey thanks for the information. There are a lot more BW paper available then 10 years ago. I took a hiatus from the darkroom and didn't look at photo catalog for years. Agfa went out of business and Kodak stop making BW paper without me knowing for years. This APUG group is great in finding valuable information. Saves a lot of trial and error. Good to know that there are folks still making prints the old fashioned way.