Advice on multiple film exposures

Roy Keane · Aug 31, 2021

So I set out Sunday morning to attempt multiple exposures on the same frame of film (I'm using a Bronica SQ-A and Tri-X rated at 400). I've never tried this before, but I wanted to figure out how alexey titarenko did City of Shadows

I metered the scene and divided the exposure time over 5 shots.

Overall exposure is in the ballpark (my scanner sucks), but I was surprised that I lost most of the people -- I was hoping for a sort of ghostly thing (you can see a bit in the crosswalk), as there were lots of people in every shot. The exposures were all something like 1/125th of a second, so I thought I'd get more human figures rather than the long-exposure erasure of people.

Any advice for my next try?

Alan Edward Klein · Aug 31, 2021

It seems that Titarenko didn't use multiple shots but rather a long, single exposure. The stilled objects like the banister stay sharp while the people movements are recorded, all in a single frame.

Andrew O'Neill · Aug 31, 2021

He used long exposures. I wonder what medium format camera he used?

MattKing · Aug 31, 2021

In order for the people to appear, the exposure that captures them needs to be sufficient.
In the example you posted, those who are visible were probably there during two or more of the exposures, and their visibility is there because of the cumulative total of exposure.

grahamp · Aug 31, 2021

1/125 over 5 exposures puts an individual figure close to the exposure threshold, if not actually below it. Longer exposures would help with people who are not walking, but would lose people moving fast. Maybe one longer exposure and two or three shorter ones for the total exposure to get some motion blur and the stop motion 'stutter'?

MatthewDunn · Aug 31, 2021

If you look here, the artist is using a Hasselblad and implies/suggests that this is a single long exposure. http://www.alexeytitarenko.com/cityofshadows

Roy Keane · Aug 31, 2021

Thanks, everyone for the replies.

What I don't understand is, how can it be a single long exposure? Wouldn't that also "erase" everyone? That's why I figured it had to be a pileup of short exposures.

Does it maybe have to be long exposure in which people get stuck in the same spot for a longer than normal time (creating a chokepoint?)

Roy Keane · Aug 31, 2021

Alan Edward Klein said:
It seems that Titarenko didn't use multiple shots but rather a long, single exposure. The stilled objects like the banister stay sharp while the people movements are recorded, all in a single frame.

I was trying to do with the white cup what he did with the bannister

Andrew O'Neill · Aug 31, 2021

MatthewDunn said:
If you look here, the artist is using a Hasselblad and implies/suggests that this is a single long exposure. http://www.alexeytitarenko.com/cityofshadows

Does it say somewhere he used a Hasselblad?

MatthewDunn · Aug 31, 2021

Roy Keane said:
Thanks, everyone for the replies.

What I don't understand is, how can it be a single long exposure? Wouldn't that also "erase" everyone? That's why I figured it had to be a pileup of short exposures.

Does it maybe have to be long exposure in which people get stuck in the same spot for a longer than normal time (creating a chokepoint?)

My fairly uneducated guess is that it is something like a heavy ND filter and that, with enough people, you get that effect. Inasmuch as you can quite literally see my office window in your shot, I know where you are standing and there should be more than enough people. Even on a Sunday morning. Super interested in seeing your next attempt!!!

Roy Keane · Aug 31, 2021

Andrew O'Neill said:
Does it say somewhere he used a Hasselblad?

he talks about his hasselblad in an Art of Photography video

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjz-eCD2tvyAhXvc98KHfAlDe8QwqsBegQIBBAB&url=https://www.facebook.com/watchaop/videos/alexey-titarenko-the-artist-series/125782318056741/&usg=AOvVaw3jb_EwP9F8tMUU4bj8kA1W

MatthewDunn · Aug 31, 2021

Andrew O'Neill said:
Does it say somewhere he used a Hasselblad?

It does. If you look at the 4th or 5th to last paragraph on that page, you see:

""More than anything, I wanted to convey my “people-shadows” metaphor as accurately as possible. This metaphor became the core of both my new vision and new series. I placed my Hasselblad camera near the entrance to the Vasilievostrovskaia subway station, where the shopping district was located."

Roy Keane · Aug 31, 2021

MatthewDunn said:
My fairly uneducated guess is that it is something like a heavy ND filter and that, with enough people, you get that effect. Inasmuch as you can quite literally see my office window in your shot, I know where you are standing and there should be more than enough people. Even on a Sunday morning. Super interested in seeing your next attempt!!!

if not for the pandemic, I'd just wait outside the entrance of South Station at 5:00 pm any weeknight

MattKing · Aug 31, 2021

There are rhythms and cadences to how crowds and people move. The locations affect those rhythms and cadences - people climb stairs (pausing slightly at each stair) at a particular rate, depending on factors like the stairs, the crowds, even the time of day. The trick is to choose an exposure that works well with those rhythms and cadences. Titarenko was probably benefited by the relatively low light levels in St. Petersburg when he did the work leading up to City of Shadows. Havana must have been a different challenge.

pentaxuser · Aug 31, 2021

Certainly very long exposures taken during Photography's infancy did seem to result in street scenes showing no people. Isn't that due to the fact that people walking are not static long enough to register at any one of several points on the negative even though they may take a few seconds in total from entering the scene before leaving it?

In the early days of our first motorway, the M1, I think someone took a long exposure of it at say just after dawn when the frequency of vehicles was such that several passed during the shoot but none at say 70 mph were there long enough to register on the film. It appeared as if the M1 was empty

I presume that in recent years the literally constant and in effect never-ending traffic stream means that this is now virtually impossible as now the stream shows up as a continuous "streak " on the film?

pentaxuser

Roy Keane · Aug 31, 2021

MattKing said:
There are rhythms and cadences to how crowds and people move. The locations affect those rhythms and cadences - people climb stairs (pausing slightly at each stair) at a particular rate, depending on factors like the stairs, the crowds, even the time of day. The trick is to choose an exposure that works well with those rhythms and cadences. Titarenko was probably benefited by the relatively low light levels in St. Petersburg when he did the work leading up to City of Shadows. Havana must have been a different challenge.

yeah, was thinking the same thing about Havana. Those seemed more difficult to pull off, technically

Andrew O'Neill · Aug 31, 2021

MatthewDunn said:
It does. If you look at the 4th or 5th to last paragraph on that page, you see:

""More than anything, I wanted to convey my “people-shadows” metaphor as accurately as possible. This metaphor became the core of both my new vision and new series. I placed my Hasselblad camera near the entrance to the Vasilievostrovskaia subway station, where the shopping district was located."

Thank you.

removed account4 · Aug 31, 2021

Hi Roy
Does he ever suggest or imply he is using a flash?

While I haven't done this sort of work and gotten results like the fellow on the website, I goofed around doing things in the 80s with hot lights and a flash so you get ghosts, I assisted on commercial shoots with people using hassles doing the same thing. I know its not what you had thought or wanted to do but you might stop your shutter way down put it on a tripod at dusk throw it on B and in your loooong exposure studder your flash at low WS a few times you might get what you are looking for. ( In the 80s for a while there mixed light color ghost images were the rage. they usually used tungsten film, hot lights and speedos)

Looking forward to the next dispatch from South Station or Copley Place !
John

Roy Keane · Aug 31, 2021

jnantz said:
Hi Roy
Does he ever suggest or imply he is using a flash?

While I haven't done this sort of work and gotten results like the fellow on the website, I goofed around doing things in the 80s with hot lights and a flash so you get ghosts, I assisted on commercial shoots with people using hassles doing the same thing. I know its not what you had thought or wanted to do but you might stop your shutter way down put it on a tripod at dusk throw it on B and in your loooong exposure studder your flash at low WS a few times you might get what you are looking for. ( In the 80s for a while there mixed light color ghost images were the rage. they usually used tungsten film, hot lights and speedos)

Looking forward to the next dispatch from South Station or Copley Place !
John

I don't believe he does, but I haven't watched that video in a while. I previously studied it like the zapruder film and I don't remember him mentioning it. He does talk about pretending to not be taking a picture while he's waiting out long exposures, so that people wouldn't notice him taking pictures and try to talk to him. So I doubt flash was involved

Actually, that just reminded me that it DEFINITELY wasn't multiple exposures because he talks about long exposures specifically.

Andrew O'Neill · Aug 31, 2021

Roy Keane said:
he talks about his hasselblad in an Art of Photography video

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjz-eCD2tvyAhXvc98KHfAlDe8QwqsBegQIBBAB&url=https://www.facebook.com/watchaop/videos/alexey-titarenko-the-artist-series/125782318056741/&usg=AOvVaw3jb_EwP9F8tMUU4bj8kA1W

Thank you for the link!

removed account4 · Aug 31, 2021

Roy Keane said:
I don't believe he does, but I haven't watched that video in a while. I previously studied it like the zapruder film and I don't remember him mentioning it. He does talk about pretending to not be taking a picture while he's waiting out long exposures, so that people wouldn't notice him taking pictures and try to talk to him. So I doubt flash was involved

Actually, that just reminded me that it DEFINITELY wasn't multiple exposures because he talks about long exposures specifically.

good luck with your exposing!
John

gone · Sep 1, 2021

I use a much slower shutter speed for this sort of thing. You may not need a ND fltr considering Tri-X can easily be shot at 200 and developed normally (or even at 100, it blocks up the shadows but has great tonality). Try shooting it at 100 stopped down all the way w/ a yellow filter and the camera on a tripod.

tballphoto · Dec 25, 2021

handhold, set to 1/60 and have at least one or two shots of johnny walker black before hand, youll get GOOD ghostly image.

jvo · Dec 26, 2021

sturmovik said:
handhold, set to 1/60 and have at least one or two shots of johnny walker black before hand, youll get GOOD ghostly image.

fyi, red label works to!!!

p.s. welcome to photrio.

tballphoto · Dec 26, 2021

jvo said:
fyi, red label works to!!!

p.s. welcome to photrio.

never had the red, like the Black waaay to much. Oh it was smooth. Too smooth, but tasty.

Why do i feel a drunken photo binge would be fun?

Advice on multiple film exposures

Roy Keane

Alan Edward Klein

Andrew O'Neill

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grahamp

MatthewDunn

Roy Keane

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MatthewDunn

Roy Keane

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pentaxuser

Roy Keane

Andrew O'Neill

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removed account4

Roy Keane

Andrew O'Neill

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removed account4

gone

tballphoto

jvo

tballphoto

Advice on multiple film exposures

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