Advice on LF fashion/portrait camera

GraemeMitchell · Aug 14, 2005

Greetings, my first posting, but I thought you guys would be the people to ask. I'm not a techie, so I'm looking for advice on a good camera for fashion and portraiture (and other general personal use).

I've been shooting with a Sinar monorail and actually enjoy it, especially the generous movements. But I'm moving and it's too big to haul around for work. So I'm thinking of a field camera. Something with a relatively long bellows draw so I can work with a 300 if I want to (although, to note, I rarely shoot anything wider than a 90). I was leaning towards non-geared for durability reasons, but not necessaraliy. I was almost thinking an 8x10 deardorff with a 4x5 back, just so I have the option of going bigger if I want. But they're pricey in good shape. I'd love a Canham DLC45, but that's steep too when I start thinking of getting some glass too. A little shop nearby has a used technika III with case, holders, all 3 lenses (and cams), in killer condition for $2000, but I know nothing about that particular camera, not it's limitations.

Like I said, I'm looking for some advice, I'm not very knowledgable...I just shoot with the stuff. I'd like to spend around $2000 to get started. Maybe for a camera and a 210mm and something a little wider...but I'm just thinking it over right now.

Thanks a bunch.

Graeme
www.graememitchell.com

df cardwell · Aug 14, 2005

Hi Graeme

If you want small, go with a Crown Graphic. Light, cheap, super rugged. Limited movements, but you can't turn a camera inside out and shoot people.

A 240 / 250 works great. A 300... with a short spacer between the #3 copal shutter and you're great. Or a telephoto. You've got a world of lenses to pick from. A Commercial Ektar is a great choice: most folks thinks old is rubbish. Wrong. An old artar / apo raptar / apo ronar are classic process lenses that have fantastic color, and are slighly lower contrast than run of the mill commercial lenses.

Why not a Linhof ? Expensive and heavy. If this experiment works out, the Canham is a brilliant choice. I use the 8x10 Deardorff + 4x5 back, but I've had it since 1969 when I got it out of a Denver pawn shop.

The only note I'll offer, because I saw your website (which is awesome), is that it's a good idea to shoot 'loose'. Leave a little room: maybe think you're shooting 3 1/2 x 4 1/2. 250 is perfect--- 300 gets pretty tight.

( And a Super D can be a very good choice... but get a good one. The Cooke Portrait lens is pricey, but fantastic )

Anyway, good luck.

Don

Alex Hawley · Aug 14, 2005

I think you can get into a Deardorff with a 4x5 back and 300 lens for less than $2000. I did. Just a matter of inquiring around and/or watching the auction site long enough.

David A. Goldfarb · Aug 14, 2005

I also think the Graflex Super D would be a fine choice for portraits and fashion. The source in New York is Lens and Repro, though the idea of "Lens and Repo" is kind of amusing--"Sorry buddy, if you can't pay up, we're gonna have to take the Deardorff."

$2000 is a bit much for a Tech III even with three cammed lenses, unless the lenses are quite special (say if there's an Apo-Lanthar in there--I don't think there were Zeiss lenses for Linhof until the Tech IV). I'd be thinking more around $1500. For info on the different versions of the Technika, look at the pages at www.cameraquest.com.

That said, I think there's a case to be made for a Tech V or Master Tech for what you're doing. The rangefinder lets you focus and frame accurately for portraits while you have a holder in the camera, and you can have as many cammed lenses as you need. Cameras like the Graphic can only be calibrated for one focal length at a time, and the Wista RF is compatible with only a limited range of lenses. A Technika is handholdable, rugged, and if you're used to a Sinar, you'll like the precise feel.

The reason I'd go with a Tech V or MT, is that it's easier to acquire new cammed lenses for a Tech V or MT. With a Tech IV or III cams have to be calibrated to both the lens and the body, and Linhof/Marflex will only make new cams for the Tech IV, V, and MT. Richard T. Ritter makes cams for the Tech III.

If you can find a Tech V kit with a few cammed lenses, as I did, I think that's the best compromise between value and having a modern LF rangefinder camera that can be easily serviced and for which it's not hard to find lensboards, etc.

removed account4 · Aug 14, 2005

i hate to sound like another one in the choir, but the super d would be my choice too. i have a rb (rotating back) series d ( not a super d ), and have lusted over a super d for a few years now. if you can get away with a smaller negative, and don't want the beast of the 4x5 (it is kind of heavy and awkward at times) they made smaller 3.25x4.25 versions of the same camera. there is one at cameraeccentric.com with a roll film adapter, and it will also take 3x4 sheet film. you can still get the sheet film from j&c and i know not too long ago fuji was still cutting color film that small ( if you didn't want to cut it down yourself with a paper cutter ). the other nice thing about the super d is that it takes barrel lenses, whose sweet abberations may give you an added edge in the fashion/portrait market
(not that you need any more help - your portraits and still lives are beautiful!)

-john

raucousimages · Aug 15, 2005

I have done several formal portraits with a toyo 45 AII and 810G. I just spent the weekend shooting a Toyo 125VX. I love the vx for my 65 and 90 mm. I realise that Toyo dosent have the appeal to some that more classic cameras may have or the beauty of wood but they are solid tools and most accessories are interchangable between cameras and formats.

David H. Bebbington · Aug 15, 2005

SPECIFICALLY for fashion/portrait, there's a lot to be said for my Keith twin-lens camera. It's like two view cameras one on top of the other, you focus with the top one and have the lower camera ready to shoot, with aperture and speed set and the film holder in place with the sheath out. The result is that you can shoot instantly when things look right. These cameras are very rare, I got one on e-bay about 18 months ago for $130! As the other postings say, further options for quick LF working include the Graflex Super D (4x5 SLR with an automatic-diaphragm lens) and any rangefinder with accurately-cammed lenses. Among more "normal" cameras, a Sinar monorail with the Sinar shutter system that closes the shutter and shuts down the aperture when you insert the film holder also speeds things up. Horseman has a similar system.

roteague · Aug 15, 2005

raucousimages said:
I realise that Toyo dosent have the appeal to some that more classic cameras may have or the beauty of wood but they are solid tools and most accessories are interchangable between cameras and formats.

Yes, I have a Toyo 45AII as well, and I wouldn't trade it for anything else. The wood cameras look nice, but I like the precision feel this camera gives me.

David A. Goldfarb · Aug 15, 2005

Since David B. mentions the Keith camera, you could also add the Gowlandflex to your list. Info at www.petergowland.com, click on "Their Cameras."

Amund · Aug 15, 2005

Yeah, the Gowlandflex is great! Shooting wide open with LF is really fun, and seeing what`s in focus is a must with the short DOF involved. That`s a bit harder with rangefinder focus...
Here`s a couple of examples:
f/6.7

f/11

GraemeMitchell · Aug 15, 2005

Thanks everyone. My interest is piqued by the super D. I had not considered it b/c I shoot a lot in low light and with hot lights, so I was presuming a tripod would be necessary. Plus, I was under the impression the lenses were fixed on those, but I'm gathering that they're not? It may be a something I'd get on top of a field camera down the road, as another option. I feel something more versatile like the Linhof MT or the crown graphic, may be better initially. But, as I said, I'm not that knowledgable with the gear or the ups and downs of anything in particular, so I appreciate the ideas.

(I'm also really into the automatic aperture you mentioned, never heard of it, but now that I have I don't know if I can live w/o it)

David A. Goldfarb · Aug 15, 2005

The Graflex reflex-type cameras all have interchangeable lenses, but the mirror limits you to slightly longer than normal as the widest lens that will focus to infinity, and the bellows extension isn't that great. For portraits, of course, the lens doesn't need to focus to infinity. Some of the series D cameras have an auto aperture function, and to use it, you need to use a lens designed for the camera, but you could also use other lenses. For info on these cameras, check out graflex.org.

I have a 5x7" Press Graflex, and the lenses I use with it are a B&L 5x8" (about 240mm)/f:4.5 Tessar, which is the stock lens, a Schneider 210/3.5 Xenar (which doesn't focus to infinity, but the speed makes it nice for indoor shots), and a Goerz 12"/6.8 Gold Dot Dagor. I've been meaning to make an adapter so I can use lenses on Technika lensboards on the Press Graflex, but I think the longest lens I can use on this camera is going to be around 14", so there's no rush on that. Here's a sample shot made with the stock 5x8" Tessar--

GraemeMitchell · Aug 24, 2005

Hate to bring back this old thread, but what about a Linhof Technikardan???

I can get a camera, boards, incl bag bellows for $1500.

Catch is, of course, I've never shot with one, so was looking for opinions (on camera and price). I'll try and take it out this weekend if possible to see how it handles.

df cardwell · Aug 24, 2005

It's very cool. But it's best used as a pack up small, go on location kind of camera.

It's actually a little small for doing 'people work'... kind of precious... hard to keep the dark cloth out of the ground glass... movements are fine, but to be so compact it is tough to manage the movements without losing contact with a subject.

But the best way to judge is by trying it out. Have fun.

David · Aug 25, 2005

I have and use the Graflex in 3x4 but what isn't mentioned is that you can only use strobe flash with these cameras by jury-rigging something up.
Probably wouldn't be difficult with a micro switch on the mirror or some such thing.

Jeremy · Aug 25, 2005

David said:
I have and use the Graflex in 3x4 but what isn't mentioned is that you can only use strobe flash with these cameras by jury-rigging something up.
Probably wouldn't be difficult with a micro switch on the mirror or some such thing.

Doesn't the Super D have a flash sync? I know the Series D does not, but I thought the Super D did have one. Ritzcam.com has a 3x4 Super D for sale for $550, just as a heads up.

David H. Bebbington · Aug 25, 2005

Jeremy Moore said:
Doesn't the Super D have a flash sync? I know the Series D does not, but I thought the Super D did have one. Ritzcam.com has a 3x4 Super D for sale for $550, just as a heads up.

As I recall, the Super D has synchronized open flash, i.e. when the shutter is set to T and triggered, the flash fires when the shutter is fully open, and you then press the shutter release again to close.

JohnArs · Aug 25, 2005

Technikardan is the flyh all over architectural Photogs joice!
Of course not for fashion. I could recommand all the old press cameras + the Linhof Technikas but it has to be a V or newer. Or the Littman, but of course not a Technikardan, super camera but not for fashion.

Jeremy · Aug 25, 2005

David H. Bebbington said:
As I recall, the Super D has synchronized open flash, i.e. when the shutter is set to T and triggered, the flash fires when the shutter is fully open, and you then press the shutter release again to close.

Ooh, really? That's really not that helpful at all! Thanks for the correction, David. I have been looking at the Series D cameras as the Super D's always command a premium that I don't believe to be worth it for my needs.

David H. Bebbington · Aug 25, 2005

In fact, the synchronization seems to be slightly more sophisticated:
http://www.graflex.org/RBGraflex/flash.html
in that X synch is apparently available with a speed of 1/5, but even this would be usable only with fairly low levels of ambient light.

David A. Goldfarb · Aug 25, 2005

With normal studio strobes, you can leave the room lights on at 1/5 sec. and not have too much ambient interference at typical LF apertures. Just keep the flash at least 4 or 5 stops over ambient.

df cardwell · Aug 27, 2005

Graeme

Check out a Linhof Color.... a good mix of tech camera and monorail.... really good for shooting people, in a mad rush... this one is perfect... can't believe it took so long to remember it !

Ole · Aug 31, 2005

How did I miss this??? I've got one of those! And I agree - the Linhof Color is a great little camera, and a brilliant "compromise" between technical and monorail. I mostly use mine in the field though - it's a lot faster to set this up than any field camera I've tried!

boyooso · Sep 3, 2005

I might be silly for asking this question, but what makes a camera better for portraits than others?

I use a zone vi 4x5 and a B&J 8x10 for portraits and think both work fine. I can't imagine why any other cameras would work better or worse? aside from length of bellows?

I would love to know what makes a good portrait camera?

Corey

PS. Isn't the camera basically a box to attach a lens?

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 3, 2005

An SLR like a Graflex or a TLR like the Gowlandflex makes it possible to focus dynamically up until the moment you press the shutter, and a camera with a rangefinder like a Technika or a Graphic makes it possible to check focus on the fly while you have a filmholder in the back--not as dynamic as an SLR, but more dynamic than a camera with only groundglass focusing. The Littman has a single-window rangefinder/viewfinder, so in this regard it is somewhere between a Technika or Graphic and a Graflex or Gowlandflex.

I use all three--5x7" Press Graflex SLR, 4x5" Technika rangefinder, and various cameras with only groundglass focusing. Each requires its own working method and each lends itself to a different style of portraiture.

Advice on LF fashion/portrait camera

GraemeMitchell

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raucousimages

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