Advice on first timer for a Hasselblad kit

Auroraua · Apr 25, 2015

What does in-leaf shutter mean?

Also if I´m not using flash or need an inbuilt meter, what is the practical difference of getting a
500C, 500 C/M, 501 C/M or the 503 CW.

I have looked and read here
http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/Hasselblad500.html

I am planning to shoot landscape and portrait. I would use a tripod in many cases, but I also want to be able to use it handheld, if the lighting conditions allow.
I don´t really like heavy cameras, which is why I prefer Hasselblad to Pentax or Mamiya which in my opinion are so clumsy somehow.

MattKing · Apr 25, 2015

A leaf shutter is one that is placed somewhere in the midst of the light path rather than at or close to the film itself. In most cases it will be in the middle of a lens, and in those cases, if the camera uses interchangeable lenses, each of those lenses will need their own shutter.

A leaf shutter opens and closes as a circle. That can be contrasted with a focal plane shutter, where first one curtain opens, then after the required time, a second curtain closes. As a result, short duration electronic flashes can be used at any available shutter speed with a leaf shutter, whereas with a focal plane shutter many of the faster speeds don't synchronize with electronic flash, because the "travelling slit" created by the focal plane shutter always has at least part of the film covered (so there is no particular time to fire the flash).

Leaf shutter lenses are grewt if you like tl use fill flash.

Auroraua · Apr 25, 2015

I don´t use flash, at least until now. So I guess that´s not essential.
Which camera would you recommend?
When you refer to money - are you referring to the bodies?
Is there a reason they are more expensive (more reliable, collectors etc).
I am not a collector, a user.
Is the 500 C the cheapest?
Would people recommend them, or not so much?
According to photo ethnography she recommends at least the 500 C/M.
Are the Hasselblad trickier to fix and CLA than a Leica or a Rollei?

Sirius Glass · Apr 25, 2015

I have a 503CX which I am happy with.

Do not worry about the gliding mirror. The 503 CX does not have the gliding mirror which means that with the 250mm lens there is a tiny sliver at the top which I cannot see. That does not affect the photograph and I do not even notice the sliver.

The reference to money is that Hasselblads are a bit pricey, but basically that means that you will wait a little longer between buying more lenses. I have been in photography for over fifty years and I have never found a camera better for landscapes and portraits than a Hasselblad. The large viewfinder allows one to compose and see everything that will be photographed. That also means that you see things that you do not want in the photograph and you will move or recompose to eliminate what you do not want.

agfarapid · Apr 25, 2015

Hasselblad's earliest leaf shutter model was the 500c, followed by the 500cm, 501, 503, etc. Probably the best model to get would be the 500cm since it's newer than the 500c and has some upgrades including user changeable screens. The Hasselblad is (from my experience) more complex and consequently costlier to maintain than an M3. Can't speak about the Rollei--don't have one. You said that you preferred the Hasselblad over the Mamiya or Pentax, and I presume you are talking about their 6x7 models which are heavier (but far more reliable)than the Hasselblad. You might consider the Mamiya 645 models, especially since you are interested in portraits and landscapes. Due to the rectilinear format of 645, it lends itself nicely to landscapes, is far cheaper and simpler in operation and requires less maintenance. I have a Hasselblad, an M3 and several Mamiya 645 models. Of the three, the Mamiya has been my most reliable and the lowest cost to operate while still having excellent optics and handling.

Sirius Glass · Apr 25, 2015

I have not had any maintenance or repair problems with my Hasselblads even though I use them heavily.

Alan Gales · Apr 26, 2015

Do you like square? Are you going to print square photographs? If you prefer rectangles and are going to crop your Hasselblad to a rectangle you would be better off shooting a Mamiya 645.

If you like square then go for the Blad. I'd look for a CM or newer. I don't think you can put in a brighter focussing screen on the C. Also they are pretty old.

rossb · Apr 26, 2015

I have used a late model 501C to shoot landscape for many years. The camera lacks the "gliding mirror system" of the later CM models, but since I don't use focal lengths beyond 150mm, this is not really a problem. The camera has the improved focussing screen as standard (but you need to check the one you might buy) is nice hand held, great on a tripod and requires care, patience and not much else in use. The 50mm Distagon CF is a nice wide for landscape and together with an 80mm Planar CF (which many second hand 'blads have) is a great starting combination.

Slixtiesix · Apr 26, 2015

If you do not need TTL-flash capabilities or the option to use a winder you can erase the 503CW from your list. (In case you may want a winder, I would rather recommend to buy a 553ELX or 555ELD. Waaay cheaper than buying a 503cw plus winder.) So the choice is between 500C, 500CM, 501C and 501CM. As the posters above have pointed out, the older models have foam mirror pads that may need a replacement. I would shop for a 501CM for the following reasons: Not that much more expensive than a good 500CM, gliding mirror and no foam pads, newer screen already installed. However, a beaten down 501CM may be worse than a nice 500CM, so condition counts! Look for excessive paint wear on the lens bayonet, magazine mount and tripod mount. If the paint comes off the waist level finder, that´s also a sign that the camera has seen massive use.
Rearding the lenses, CF lenses (made in the 80s and 90s) offer the best value for the money. I would only recommend Hasselblad if you print square (otherwise I would say get a Mamiya or Pentax 645, or even a Contax) and if you want to use different focal lengths. People who only want to use 80mm are better served with a Rollei I think.

Theo Sulphate · Apr 26, 2015

The most important component of your system will be the lenses. Look at this link,

https://isurplus.com.au/manuals/Hasselblad Lens Guide.pdf

for an overview and detailed description of the C, CF, etc., lenses and how to use them (note: the link is a .pdf download of a text file).

Theo Sulphate · Apr 26, 2015

APUGuser19 said:
Actually, the most important component is the condition of the pads behind the mirror and its backing plate. I have done exhausting testing of this, and it is paramount. A good lens is no good if your focus is 6 or 8 inches or more off at 4 feet...

Yeah, that would suck. So, I assume the way to check this is from the front, lens off, and pre-released to get the mirror up. Assuming the pads aren't total dust, does one check for a certain amount of hardness or sponginess?

David Allen · Apr 26, 2015

One word of warning

In the recent experience of three people I know, the most important thing is to find out how regularly the lenses have been used. Basically, if the shutter in the lens has not been regularly fired you face a potentially large bill for a CLA. A regularly used lens (even if it looks a bit scruffy on the cosmetic side) is far more preferable than one that looks mint but has not been used for years - which leads to the lubricant becoming sticky.

Only last week, a photographer approached me to diagnose some strange results she had got with her Hasselblad. All of the negatives were dense and blurred (almost a double image in fact) despite she had been using 1/125. I met up with her and the 500cm and 50mm lens looked mint - almost brand new. However, when I removed the back and locked up the mirror and fired the lens, the problem was very clear: upon firing the shutter set at f16, the blades closed to about f5.6 for a fraction of second, then slowly closed to f16 and then closed completely. I don't know where you are based but in Berlin having the lens stripped, cleaned and re-lubricated cost her 180.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

RobC · Apr 26, 2015

in lens leaf shutters have max speed of 1/400 to 1/500 for the hasselbald cameras. The pros to this is that with leaf shutter they flash sync at all speeds upto and including fastest. The cons are that you are limited to 1/400 or so when not using flash. If you need very fast shutter speeds you won't get them with the 500/501/503 models.

The biggest upside to the hasselbald system is the zeiss lenses which go on them. The downside is that they are clunky things to use and for me were prone to jamming. Leaf shutters cause very very little vibration when you fire them. On the other hand the mirror in a MF SLR camera causes a lot of vibration so you mostly need to to pre open the mirror before releasing the shutter and that means they are best used on tripods which if you are planning on hand held usage ain't so good unless you are using flash lighting in a studio.

The decision should really be about the type of photography you are going to be doing and whether its the right tool for the job.

And note that fuji and bronica and mamiya all have exellent lenses too.

Richard S. (rich815) · Apr 26, 2015

So much detail and what can go wrong! Keep it simple and don't over think it. Buy a 500CM (or even 500C) and 80 lens from a reliable source. Worst case you can later sell it for about what you paid maybe a little less. Cheap rental if you're don't like it. Just get it and start shooting.

Sirius Glass · Apr 26, 2015

Richard Sintchak (rich815) said:
So much detail and what can go wrong! Keep it simple and don't over think it. Buy a 500CM (or even 500C) and 80 lens from a reliable source. Worst case you can later sell it for about what you paid maybe a little less. Cheap rental if you're don't like it. Just get it and start shooting.

Do not worry about what can go wrong, because it rarely does. The worst case is usually having a CLA. I have never needed more than a minor adjustment. I have found Hasselblads are very reliable.

philipus · Apr 26, 2015

I'm a Hasselblad novice too but, fwiw, here are a few sites I found in my search for info. I'd also recommend the Hasselblad Manual (Wildi)

https://web.archive.org/web/20030415040854/http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/hassy.html
https://web.archive.org/web/2003122...opic=Medium Format Digest&category=Hasselblad
http://www.freelists.org/archive/hasselblad/
https://web.archive.org/web/2007060...elblad.com/downloads/datasheets/v-system.aspx
https://web.archive.org/web/20120210222254/http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/HS/HSTable.aspx
Dead Link Removed
http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/01/26/intro-to-hasselblad-v-series/

I've bought lots of second-hand Leica equipment over the years and fully agree with Richard's point that buying from a reliable source which offers a return privilege is a very good way to start.

br
Philip

Jager · Apr 26, 2015

Lots of great info here. I'll only add that, after three months I can't recommend the Hasselblad experience highly enough.

I bought a just-CLA'd 500C/M w/80 Planar lens. I instantly fell in love with that old camera. There is something sublime about composing on a ground glass and then triggering the shutter on that camera. I take it out nearly every day. Some thoughts...

Shooting with a camera that has no meter will make you see light like you've never seen it before. Yes, you'll want to budget for a good light meter, if you don't already have one.

The whole process of shooting a Hasselblad - like film in general, but more so - is slower, more methodical, more thoughtful. Today I drove two hours to where I was going to shoot, was there for another two hours, and had a great time. I shot seven frames.

The Zeiss glass is kind to everything.

I had never shot square format before the Hasselblad. I print a lot, typically in an image's native format. So shooting/printing with the Hasselblad means square for me. I find the format... beguiling. I like it, a lot. I find that beyond the aesthetics of the format itself, shooting square has me thinking about composition in new and interesting ways.

For casual, walkaround shooting, you only have around three stops of shutter speeds (1/125, 1/250, 1/500) you can confidently use before shutter vibration starts becoming a potential issue. That's perfectly workable, but just know that, depending upon the film stock you've got loaded, you're going to hit quick limits in terms of EV/shutter speed/aperture. A tripod quickly absolves those limits, of course, but at the cost of... using a tripod.

Largely because of all that, a spare film back is nice so you can quickly move to a faster or slower film stock.

You get lots of friendly looks and comments when out and about. A film Hasselblad is a very disarming camera.

The images rock.

Did I mention that triggering the shutter on a Hasselblad is one of the loveliest things you can legally experience? ;-)

Luis-F-S · Apr 26, 2015

Get a 500 C/M or a 501 C/M. I've got 8. Best bang for the buck.

Sirius Glass · Apr 26, 2015

I found that the 60mm lens is too close to the 80mm lens. Therefore I recommend the following sets of lenses as you build your system

50mm, 80mm, 150mm and 250mm
50mm, 100mm, 150mm, and 250mm

Of those I use the 150mm lens the least since I generally will not take portraits.

I have the 903 SWC [38mm] which is rectilinearly correct over the 40mm lens.

I agree that if you are not going to take a lot of flash/strobe photographs that it is not worth the extra money for the 503 CW. I use a Nikon SB800 for flash/strobe.

RalphLambrecht · Apr 26, 2015

Auroraua said:
I don´t use flash, at least until now. So I guess that´s not essential.
Which camera would you recommend?
When you refer to money - are you referring to the bodies?
Is there a reason they are more expensive (more reliable, collectors etc).
I am not a collector, a user.
Is the 500 C the cheapest?
Would people recommend them, or not so much?
According to photo ethnography she recommends at least the 500 C/M.
Are the Hasselblad trickier to fix and CLA than a Leica or a Rollei?

When I had to make that desision,I picked the 501c because it was very basic but fully manual and in average newer than the 500, so, I found many in good shape 2nd-hand.For the lenses,I made sure to get all as CF lenses:4050,80,150 and 250to not have to deal with different handling between lenses.They are all excellent

johnha · Apr 27, 2015

Jager said:
For casual, walkaround shooting, you only have around three stops of shutter speeds (1/125, 1/250, 1/500) you can confidently use before shutter vibration starts becoming a potential issue. That's perfectly workable, but just know that, depending upon the film stock you've got loaded, you're going to hit quick limits in terms of EV/shutter speed/aperture. A tripod quickly absolves those limits, of course, but at the cost of... using a tripod.

Surprised by this, I haven't used a blad but I've shot Mamiya 645, Bronica SQ and Pentax 6x7 handheld slower than 1/125th without any apparent problems. In the mid '90s I was looking at blads but on the web as it was then, every third post seemed to be asking how to un-jam them, I bought the Bronica and never had a problem.

Jager said:
Did I mention that triggering the shutter on a Hasselblad is one of the loveliest things you can legally experience? ;-)

I reckon firing the P6x7 is much more satisfying!

John.

Theo Sulphate · Apr 27, 2015

johnha said:
Surprised by this, I haven't used a blad but I've shot Mamiya 645, Bronica SQ and Pentax 6x7 handheld slower than 1/125th without any apparent problems. In the mid '90s I was looking at blads but on the web as it was then, every third post seemed to be asking how to un-jam them, I bought the Bronica and never had a problem.

Whatever you could shoot the Pentax 6x7 at, you should be able to duplicate with a Hasselblad.

As for jamming, just make sure the body and lens are cocked when removing the lens or installing it. Even if it's jammed, it's not that big a deal to correct.

APUGuser19: thank you for the information on the pad test.

Jager · Apr 28, 2015

johnha said:
Surprised by this, I haven't used a blad but I've shot Mamiya 645, Bronica SQ and Pentax 6x7 handheld slower than 1/125th without any apparent problems. In the mid '90s I was looking at blads but on the web as it was then, every third post seemed to be asking how to un-jam them, I bought the Bronica and never had a problem.

John.

Nope, not at all saying you can't shoot handheld below 1/125. Just that that's a reasonable lower bound before potential camera shake issues start introducing themselves. The Hasselblad, like most medium format SLR's, has a lot of mechanical movement as part of the shutter release process, and a lot of physical mass accompanying that movement.

A Leica it ain't.

None of which detracts from its charm. Like I said, triggering all that mechanical movement is sublime

RalphLambrecht · Apr 28, 2015

Jager said:
Nope, not at all saying you can't shoot handheld below 1/125. Just that that's a reasonable lower bound before potential camera shake issues start introducing themselves. The Hasselblad, like most medium format SLR's, has a lot of mechanical movement as part of the shutter release process, and a lot of physical mass accompanying that movement.

A Leica it ain't.

None of which detracts from its charm. Like I said, triggering all that mechanical movement is sublime

anybody exposing longer than 1/125th of a second needs a tripod faster film or his meter calibrated

Richard S. (rich815) · Apr 28, 2015

RalphLambrecht said:
anybody exposing longer than 1/125th of a second needs a tripod faster film or his meter calibrated

Or has not viewed their negs or chromes with a loupe.

Advice on first timer for a Hasselblad kit

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