Advice on DIY Colour film processing?

Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
16
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
Hello everyone..

I'm new here, and excited to be part of the community. I joined with the intention of finding some information and advice from those who may have more knowledge and experience in the area than I.

In short, I am looking for tips on choosing the right film processing solution for home processing. I have shot film for over 10 years and know it is a long term commitment in my practice, so I have decided it is probably a worthwhile investment (financially, and time-wise) to look into home-processing. I've researched a fair bit, but would love to hear other people's experiences and thoughts on what they've used.

Shooting a mix of 35mm and 120, C41. If I had the means to develop, I'd probably shoot more E6/slide as well. Looking at my options for film processing solutions and I see my best options as being a pick between a Jobo system (manual or fully auto), or Phototherm. So here's where my questions begin..

What are people's experiences and preferences with the two systems?
Are there other systems which you may recommend?
How reliable / consistent are the results of these systems? Enough to match that of a lab? I'm assuming a Jobo is a simplified version of a high-end processing system, and used correctly would turn out same quality negatives?
If going for a jobo, there appear to be so many options! Which to look at?
Any quirks to watch out for?

Thanks so much for any replies, in advance. <3
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
53,182
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
Welcome to APUG.
I'll confirm in bold that you will be processing C41 colour film, because if people miss that they may give you advice more suitable to black and white.
To answer your question, it would help to know what you expect your volume of film processing will be. If your answer is one roll a week, the advice will most likely be different than if your volume will be significantly more than that.
 
OP
OP
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
16
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
Matt, thank you for your welcome and your reply.

You are right, the majority of processing I'm looking to do is C41 colour film.

In terms of volume, if I had the means to do processing, then definitely more than 1 a week. I tend to shoot and get my film processed in batches...so yes it would be with a view to processing in quantity. Thank you.
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,973
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
Concerning "full manual" for colour processing you may consider a self-made, unheated tempering bath to store the processing baths and to put the tank back into between inversions.
Even more simple would be the temperature-drop method and just using the tank.
 

Mick Fagan

Subscriber
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
4,422
Location
Melbourne Au
Format
Multi Format
I do not know anything about Phototherm, except what I can read and see on the web. So I cannot comment on that.

As for colour processing, and in particular C41, it really is a quite easy process. The more you control the process, the better (technically) your output will be.

I have been running a Jobo CPE2 processor for around 28/29 years. This was the lowest of the units available and the only one I could afford at the time. It still works and I still use it, in fact I’ll be using it tonight when things cool down to process some more film (B&W).

Now you may wish to start processing without any kind of processor, it really is that easy. However if you ramp up production then having a machine to take some of the possible errors, not to mention a certain amount of drudgery, then go for it.

Whichever way you go, think of the future. If you try out C41 and keep on doing it in low numbers, then normal inversion processing without any machinery is perfectly acceptable and in reality, very good.

I think the wide lipped Patterson tanks that are the latest incarnation of Patterson tanks are about the best and easiest to use, especially as the top acts as a big and easy to use funnel. They are relatively cheap to boot.

If you are thinking you may eventually go the machine route, then Jobo would have to be in the equation. One needs to understand the Jobo tank system then decide how to do it.

I would suggest you could look at picking up a Jobo 1540 tank, this can process 4x135 films or 4x120 films. The 1540 is really a 1510 tank (1 roll of 135 film) and a 1530 extension, which must have the 1530 extension core to be able to be used.

This tank uses (in round figures) 500ml of solution in a rotary situation and is about the easiest Jobo tank to use in a rotary method without a machine. Trust me I have done this squillions of times, well, maybe a few hundred, but who’s counting. If you decide to use inversion processing with this tank, then in round figures you will require 1 litre of solution for the same amount of films.

My take on the C41 process is that 1 litre of developer solution will process 8 rolls of 135 or 120 film in a one shot developing situation. So you can do either 4 rolls at a time and use 500ml then do another 4 rolls with the other half of the 1 litre of developer solution. Or, you can process 4 rolls at a time twice re-using the whole 1 litre twice. My take on that is to process the second lot of films within a couple of hours of the first processing.

To process in a rotary sense without a rotary processor is simple with this tank, you just roll the tank sideways (if you wish in a water bath) on the bottom of a flat surface, I use my darkroom sink for this. This is a link to a 1540 tank ready to be rolled.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=jobo+multi+tank+1540&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjn2ebmu5jRAhVEX5QKHYiLDQoQ_AUICSgC&biw=1536&bih=732#imgrc=0K_0vvKduPxvcM:

As for a machine processor, I would suggest the cheapest solution would be one of the Jobo systems. The CPE2 is the oldest and is perfectly capable of a lot of work, as long as it hasn’t been overloaded. Or run into the ground, both of which are always possibilities.

Whichever unit you pick up (if you go Jobo that is) I would suggest getting one with a lift, they are virtually mandatory for the C41 process as it is the shortest standard process that I know of, at 3’15” for the colour developer. Having the lift enables you to time the pouring out of the developer so that the tank is empty at exactly 3’15” and at 3’16” you can start pouring in a stop bath (2% acetic acid solution).

A stop bath is not included in the official process, but it has two advantages, firstly, it stops any development virtually instantly. Secondly it certainly helps to keep your bleach and fix baths cleaner. Blix, which is a combination of bleach and fixer baths, and is a trade name, is certainly acceptable and as far as I know perfect. I however, run a bleach bath and a fix bath.

Running a stop bath after the developer bath also allows you to take a deep breath, slow down and concentrate on the remaining steps. This will be less of an issue as you progress and continue to learn C41 developing.

If you are not going to use sheet film, and I’m primarily talking about 4x5” film here, then any of the Jobo 1500 series of tanks will be able to process any combination of 135 and 120 film perfectly. That said, the 1540 tank is the stand out tank.

As time goes on you can add to your tank situation. The first addition I would think about would be the 1520 tank. Which can do 2x135 rolls or 2x120 rolls. The 1530 module can be added to the 1520 tank, which will allow you to process 5x135 rolls or 6x120 rolls. I do however, suggest you do not use this combination (1520 tank plus 1530 extension) on the CPE2 unit, it certainly puts strain on the small(ish) motor.

The Jobo CPE2 is the baby of the system, it comes with virtually no extras that can fail, like water pumps and electronic sensors. In that sense, it is something that, as long as the motor keeps working, should be a long time running.

Any model above the CPE2 is pretty good, certainly better in some aspects, but they come at a price, they are increasingly bigger and of course more complex, but they are nice.

With the CPE2 you can process films easily and professionally for the 135/120 and 4x5” formats. You can process up to 8x10” sheet film, but a bit of fiddling by using a print drum is what I have done. Do-able, but not the greatest.

The next processor up is the CPA2 unit, this was probably their best value for money if you were a professional photographer doing a lot of work and shooting sheet film. It can take the Expert film drums, which are the bee’s knees for evenness of sheet film processing. I have used a CPA2 unit and must say I was envious of the photographer who owned it.

Study the Jobo tank system and what can be used with what chemistry and on what machine, then if you wish to go ahead, choose an appropriate Jobo processor for the tanks and films you wish to process.

Whatever you do, if you do, do, get one with a lift.

Mick.
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,411
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format
I use my Jobo CPP2 for both color and black & white processing. I have had very good results using the Unicolor 1 liter C41 processing. I have not used the RA-4 paper processing on it.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
53,182
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
If I had the volume, I would invest in a Phototherm Sidekick in a heartbeat.
And people do seem to like their JOBO machines.
But if you are doing just a couple of rolls a week, inversion tanks and a waterbath can also make sense.
The sous vide temperature systems that cooks are using seem to make a lot of sense for that - Dead Link Removed
 

Agulliver

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
3,576
Location
Luton, United Kingdom
Format
Multi Format
I think it does depend on volume and how much time you have. I am the type who does mostly B&W, and who shoots less than a film a week on average. I have a Jobo 1520 in which I have done B&W and E6, and neither was difficult. However, if I was doing either E6 or C41 frequently, I'd consider getting some sort of machine to save time.
 

darkroommike

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Messages
1,728
Location
Iowa
Format
Multi Format
Based entirely on your location I would lean towards a Jobo system, if you were in the USA I would recommend a Phototherm. It should be noted that Jobo has just now re-entered the film processor market with their new CPE-3 (?) whilst Phototherm never left. The Phototherm is also a much more automated system than the currently available Jobo. I always sort the Jobo's by
  • CPE Entry level smaller machine
  • CPA Amateur Analog temp control
  • CPP Professional Digital temp control
If you do go for a Sidekick try for a SK-8 of some sort, the latest series are the SSK models--Super Sidekick, an SK8 will do more rolls in one processing run. All models have the ability to capture/reuse/recover bleach, fix, blix. The Sidekick uses Paterson reels but uses small "stoppers" to keep the film from unrolling during processing. Use of Paterson reels in any kind of rotary processor without stoppers is a bad idea! The Sidekick has a 4x5 film processing frame but it's a miserable thing compare to the Jobo 2509 reel. It's possible Jobo 1500 series reels would work with a Sidekick with a different center spindle, the 2500 reels are too large in diameter. And one more bit about the Sidekick, there's an accessory dryer that permits drying film using the warm exhaust from the processor and a PVC tube, a bad idea, I've heard of heaters burning out.
 
OP
OP
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
16
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
Wow, thank you for all your replies. Firstly, Happy New Year to everyone and hope you all had a good one.

I really appreciate the time you all took to share your info with me. Lots to think about. I'll try to reply coherently.

AgX — I'm looking for something more automated. One thing I am striving to achieve is consistency, which I guess a mechanised agitation and temp control would help in achieving.

MickFagan — Thanks for your detailed response. You've given great insight in to the Jobo options, especially choosing the right tank. At the moment, based on research I am now leaning toward the Jobo rather than Phototherm, as it may suit my needs most. But still thinking, and searching for what's available.

MattKing — Why is it that you would get a Phototherm in a heart beat? What makes them good? Preferred to Jobo?

darkroommike — Thanks for the info. All helpful info.

Anyone have experience with the Jobo ATL processors? Worth a look?

Thanks again to all who replied.
 

Cholentpot

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
6,748
Format
35mm
I develop c-41 in a plain 'ol Jobo without any heaters. Just a bucket of hot water. I tend to shoot a few rolls a month and freeze them until I have enough for a kit. I find that 20-25 rolls is what the 1 liter kits can handle. I have two Jobo tanks so I can run 4 rolls each time. If i'm within +5 degrees I roll with it assuming the chems will cool a bit in the tank. It's not all that fussy if you're not too fussy. I shoot expired and ECN-2 film anyhow so I'm not expecting any great shakes from my twirling tank. I have found that my results even with my scatterbrain times and temps are better than most mini labs I've used recently.

After roll 8 I start extending Dev time by 30 seconds and Blix by 1 min for every 4 rolls. Seems to work for me.

I've yet to try a stop bath, I think my next batch I will.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
53,182
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
MattKing — Why is it that you would get a Phototherm in a heart beat? What makes them good? Preferred to Jobo?
I was thinking of the JOBO CP series processors when I posted that, because they are the ones that are best supported at present, and because there actually are two models being currently produced.
Those processors are essentially semi-automatic. They control temperature and agitation, but you are responsible for timing and (with the assistance of a "lift") filling and emptying the developing tanks.
The long discontinued ATL series JOBO processors are fully automatic.
The Phototherm Sidekick processors are like the JOBO ATL processors. They handle temperature, agitation, timing, filling and emptying for you. They will even handle drying the film if you have the accessory dryer.
You can buy one new, or can buy a used one and Phototherm will assist with support.
They are designed for use with Paterson reels, but can be adapted (by Phototherm) for others.
They aren't cheap - new or used.
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,973
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
There also is the Durst Filmetta. Quite similar to te Jobo ATL, but smaller.
 

geirtbr

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
53
Format
35mm
I have used patterson tanks a lot, and its not any problem with heated chemistry and a water bath. But ofcourse you cant be as consistent as with a developing machine. Another factor is the chemistry you use, since it will last 2-3 months in diluted state. If you can get cd4 in dry form there is a big advantage in learning to scratch mix because then you will always have fresh chemistry availible. If thats not for you, try to get hand on kodak flexicolor, it keeps well (but it will go bad eventually).
 

sfaber17

Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Messages
245
Location
Illinois
Format
35mm
Anyone have experience with the Jobo ATL processors? Worth a look?
The ATL 2,3 are like the CPPs with an auto head. The ATL2xxx series is bigger stronger. The ATL2000 has a heater element similar to the CPPs that loops around in the bottom of the bath. The ATL2200 has a better flow through heater element. It has a row of 6 1 liter bottles and a back row to hold reserve bottles that are not automatic. The ATL2300 has the back row selectable so it can auto-dispense from there.
The ATL2xxx series has the big advantage over a Phototherm in that you can process prints on it up to 20x24 in. and they are more programmable. You can select any temp, set of bottles and times, or wash times. A drawback is that you need a water panel that can deliver an exact temperature of wash water. A phototherm is small and heats water itself but the programming is mostly pre-set and you can just do film.
The Wing-Lynch is better than an ATL2xxx in some respects in that it can pre-heat the film better but it needs a nitrogen tank and it has 5 liter bottles, so they are not as nice for small quantities. They have more of a plug in module analog programming.
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…