Advice needed: On a workflow and Developer for high speed film (+ pushing)

Ashfaque · Oct 26, 2014

Hello Everyone,

I have the following 35mm films now:
- Slow: Rollei RPX 25, Retro 80S
- Medium: Fuji Acros 100, Possibly Foma 200
- Fast: Fuji Neopan 400, Ilford HP5 Plus 400, Rollei RPX 400, Neopan 400, Arista Premium 400 and T-max 400
I know I have too many variants!

Re Workflow
Please let me know if the following chemicals are ok for using with developers like Rodinal, SPUR Acurol-N and SPUR HRX.
- Stop Bath: Kodak Pro Stop Bath 473ml (dil 1+60)
- Alkaline Fixer: Fixer Moersch Alkaline Fixer 1 litre
- Wetting Agent: Kodak Photo Flo. Is there any problem (, other than the high concentration,) of using Tetenal Mirasol 2000 instead (- say too much bubbled water, streaks on negatives, etc.)?
They should be fine. But I'm still asking before ordering the next batch of chemicals (just in case I miss something critical).

Re Film and Developer for Pushing Fast Films
Which ones amongst those 400 ISO films are best suited for pushing? I would like to push one or two of those (for evening and night shooting). In some cases, it will just be full moon and reflections from the river. I like me grains to be as small as possible with the best possible resolution. I'm possibly asking for too much within 35mm range! Most importantly, which developer should I use? Microphen, T-max developer, something from SPUR or something else?
FYI: I will be getting some Ilford Delta 3200 later. So, if possible, please suggest a developer that I can also use for Delta 3200 too.

Thanks for your help and reading my long post.

Bests,

Ashfaque

gone · Oct 26, 2014

You're going to get totally confused using so many films and developers! Besides, where's the Tri-X and D76? Very, very hard to go wrong w/ that. Just shoot one film and stick to one developer until you figure that one out (and I don' t mean two rolls), then move to another one. That's what I would do anyway. I have no knowledge of night shooting I'm afraid, but one would think the ISO 3200 might work. As for the stop bath, fixer, photo-flo, etc, just look at the data sheets on each and you'll be fine.

Gerald C Koch · Oct 26, 2014

momus said:
You're going to get totally confused using so many films and developers! Besides, where's the Tri-X and D76? Very, very hard to go wrong w/ that. Just shoot one film and stick to one developer until you figure that one out (and I don' t mean two rolls), then move to another one. That's what I would do anyway. I have no knowledge of night shooting I'm afraid, but one would think the ISO 3200 might work. As for the stop bath, fixer, photo-flo, etc, just look at the data sheets on each and you'll be fine.

+1

Might I add that since HC-110 produces negatives very similar to D-76 that you consider it. As a concentrate like Rodinal it is very convenient and the concentrate lasts forever.

LikeAPolaroid · Oct 26, 2014

I pushed HP5 to 1600 and developed in Rodinal 1+50 with excellent result. Not as grainy as you may think if you use a reduced agitation pattern.

But since you're shooting the moon at night it makes little sense to push a film when you can use long exposures. In that case just compensate for the reciprocity failure and underdevelop around 20% less to keep highlight details.

baachitraka · Oct 26, 2014

You may get something better when you compare other developers with D-76 but it is hardly noticeable in prints. D-76 or concentrated liquid like HC-110, you may never go wrong. Just stick with one developer and try to build a complete system around it. Good luck.

Ashfaque · Oct 26, 2014

Hi Momus, Gerald, and baachitraka,

Thank you all very much for your advices. I know I have too many varieties of films and possibly developers (mainly have various things in mind). It partly is also due to my ability to complicate things for myself! I got those fuji (+ more ) goodies from my father-in-laws as gifts (all from Japan). I couldn't resist buying the rests when I had/have the opportunity. FYI, I'm writing from Dhaka now (will be staying here for a while). I've scoured the city and there is absolutely no B&W and E-6 chemical and film suppliers/sellers. The C-41 film that exists (Fuji C200) are mostly expired. Overall, it sucks big time!

Re. Tri-X: I wanted to buy Tri-X but it is is quite prohibitively expensive.

(Please correct me if I am wrong..) Re. D76, my limited understanding is that it's not so good for pushing films. Read similar things about Rodinal and HC-110 ( => larger grains). Hence asking for a developer I should get for pushing films.

Re. HC-110: I know about it and it's great keeping properties. Can I use it for pushing?

Bests,

Ashfaque

Ashfaque · Oct 26, 2014

LikeAPolaroid said:
I pushed HP5 to 1600 and developed in Rodinal 1+50 with excellent result. Not as grainy as you may think if you use a reduced agitation pattern.

But since you're shooting the moon at night it makes little sense to push a film when you can use long exposures. In that case just compensate for the reciprocity failure and underdevelop around 20% less to keep highlight details.

Dear Stefano,

Thanks for your tip about Rodinal. (Here comes a trouble for you!) Could you please describe your reduced agitation pattern and, explain "compensate for the reciprocity failure and underdevelop around 20% less to keep highlight details", if possible?

Bests,

Ashfaque

LikeAPolaroid · Oct 26, 2014

I need to look up my notes but I believe I do HP5@1600 in Rodinal 1+50 as follows: 1min continuous agitation, then 10sec/min for the first 10 mins, then 10sec every 5 minutes. Total development time 25 mins.

Reciprocity failure compensation means that you need to expose for longer that your meter reading when doing exposures longer than 1 second. There are tables and graphs in the HP5 datasheet and in most of the other films datasheets.
In these cases then with a normal development you would get an unacceptable high contrast (blocked highkights) so you need to reduce development time as if you were doing an N-. 20% less is a ballpark figure. YMMV as usual.

Ashfaque · Oct 26, 2014

Much appreciated, Stefano.

baachitraka · Oct 26, 2014

There is a Film Photographic India group in Facebook, you can ask about chemicals and film availability in Calcutta.

Gerald C Koch · Oct 26, 2014

Ashfaque said:
Re. HC-110: I know about it and it's great keeping properties. Can I use it for pushing?

Yes, Kodak actually recommends it for this purpose.

Many of the comments on APUG are of the opinion that Rodinal results in a speed loss over box speed.

Ashfaque · Oct 27, 2014

Baachitraka: Thanks! I'll keep an eye on there.

Gerald: Thanks for your help! I looked at the Massive Development Chart and it seems HC-110 is quite a flexible developer. Would you say the grain size is smaller and resolution is 'better' with HC-110 than from other speed enhancing developers?

Just a curiosity: Can power developers like Xtol, Microphen, D-76, Perceptol and others be mixed in portions (ofc, using correct proportion), instead of mixing the whole packet? Assuming it is possible, and if one can keep the remaining powders in airtight glass bottles (with the least amount of air), can the rests be used later?

Bests,

Ashfaque

baachitraka · Oct 27, 2014

No, I don't think you can split the quantities into equal proportion and in that way developer may not work.

flavio81 · Oct 27, 2014

Ashfaque,

From the films you mentioned, HP5+ pushes perfectly to 1600 using D76 (or ID-11) with no problems. In 120 format the grain is not an issue at all. Same should be true for 400TX. You can even try pushing to 3200, it has been done a lot in the past.

There are people who say Neopan 400 is also very good at 1600, as well.

If you want a developer specifically suitable for pushing, Ilford Microphen is a good option. Also, of course, HC-110. Those two were specifically designed for pushing!!

Gerald C Koch · Oct 27, 2014

The problem with trying to mix only a portion of a bag/container of developer is that the different chemicals tend to settle out and the contents become inhomogeneous. Some claim that this is not a problem and that you can stir the mixture before removing a portion. However, this can actually increase the problem. So companies like Kodak and Ilford warn against this practice.

Gerald C Koch · Oct 27, 2014

With regards to Perceptol and Kodak Microdol-X with their halide solvent nature are considered to be speed reducing developers. Phenidone and its derivatives like Dimezone on the other hand exhibit a increase over box speed.

Kodak formulated HC-110 to produce results very similar to those of D-76. This includes fine grain. The following site has some very good information. http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

In the following Kodak document read the section on push processing. http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4017/f4017.pdf

Ashfaque · Oct 27, 2014

Thanks everyone for your continuous help. I'm now leaning towards HC-110. I might just add Microphen though (- quite cheap, you know)! I'm losing control.

Bests,
Ashfaque

bdial · Oct 27, 2014

Aside from effective film speed and grain, the differences between most developers are very subtle, and in most cases even those differences are slight. Generally, exposure, developing time and agitation have far greater influence on your outcome than the choice of a particular developer.
The best thing to do when you are learning is pick one film/developer combination and work with it until you understand all its variables.

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 27, 2014

LikeAPolaroid said:
I pushed HP5 to 1600 and developed in Rodinal 1+50 with excellent result. Not as grainy as you may think if you use a reduced agitation pattern.

But since you're shooting the moon at night it makes little sense to push a film when you can use long exposures. In that case just compensate for the reciprocity failure and underdevelop around 20% less to keep highlight details.

If you use exposures too long, then the moon will become blurry. It moves quite rapidly across the sky.
But there is really no need. The moon is lit by the sun, so sunny 16 applies. Or Sunny 11, if you're in a somewhat hazy area.
That means Tri-X @ about 1/250th of a second at f/11 and f/16. I'd bracket to be sure of getting a good exposure.

For shooting moonlit scenes, I recommend Tri-X or HP5+, f/5.6 or f/8 for about 15 minutes exposure. Night time shooting is different. Metering is almost impossible.

Today's modern films don't require development compensation for long exposures. This has been true since about the 1990s at least, when Howard Bond did his reciprocity testing.

Ashfaque · Oct 27, 2014

Thank you for your advice as well, Thomas. I am planning to visit our ancestral village (in Munshiganj district, near Dhaka) later this year. So your advice (, along with Stefano's,) should come in handy very soon. A bit of self promotion: Some photos from previous visits are under my old(!) flickr account.

Bests,

Ashfaque

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 28, 2014

Ashfaque said:
Thank you for your advice as well, Thomas. I am planning to visit our ancestral village (in Munshiganj district, near Dhaka) later this year. So your advice (, along with Stefano's,) should come in handy very soon. A bit of self promotion: Some photos from previous visits are under my old(!) flickr account.

Bests,

Ashfaque

Good luck! Do some tests before you leave on your trip.

Ashfaque · Oct 29, 2014

I definitely will be doing some tests in Dhaka. Thank you, Thomas! I just ordered HC-110 from Silverprint (UK). A lovely shop to visit.

Bests,

Ashfaque

Advice needed: On a workflow and Developer for high speed film (+ pushing)

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