Advice needed as we approach Christmas

[robbinbaker]

Hi Everyone! I need some advice from all of you regarding my husband's Christmas gift.
He is a very busy man who's got a burning desire to drive all over our penninsula/island home taking photos that remind him of Ansel. But, he doesn't have much time to really really learn the art of the craft, so I need stuff that will provide a pretty instant gratification.
So, here is where I need the advice...
What should I buy him for Christmas to encourage this dream? What camera? What equipment? (I'm going to get him Ansel's three books The Negative, etc.) I don't want to spend a fortune, but I want some idea of what direction to start him in. Medium format??? (I'm a polaroid junkie, but I don't think that'll do it for him.) I don't think at this point he's going to want to learn to develop his own stuff but we have a nice local lab that could do custom work.
Is there any help out there? I want to encourage him to really get started before digital takes over the world and there's no longer anywhere to start from.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!
Robbin

 

[Mike Wilde]

A gift on a budget - a basic 35mm camera

There are all kinds of fancy 35mm cameras, and a millon choices beyond just little 35mm. With that in mind, view this purchase as a stepping stone.

Look for a manual focus, all manual gently used camera. Make it a body with an interchangeable lens family, but not an expensive one, or rare one. Built in manual metering is a nicety worth having.

I am thinking along the lines on Pentax K-1000 or Minolta SRT 101 though 303 range.

Fit it with a 50mm f1.7 or f2 lens, and buy a y2 yellow, and maybe y3 darker yellow filter. Search the web for 'string tripod' - basically a piece of sash cord and a stove bolt to make a camera stabilizer that fits in your pocket. Go the the paint store and get a colour chip of a middle grey shade.

Then include a brick (20 rolls) of 35mm chromogenic black and white (Ilford XP2 or Kodak I can't remenber what). A corner photolab can develop this , and should be able to get pasable black annd white prints out of this film for a reasonable price.

With this kit, and a few months of diligent use, you will be in a better position to figure out where you want to go next, and shouldn't be out more than a few hundred bucks all up if he decides he wants to go MF.

Great gear can always be bought. Seeing, and the skill to recognize how to capture what you saw in the image so that others may experience it as well are are what must be learned, and cannot easily at any price be bought.

 

[reellis67]

I think that a 35mm camera is the place to start since you can get the film developed anywhere and the cost is quite low, generaly speaking. For the camera I would suggest a well known name (Minolta, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc) so that you can find lenses easily and at a reasonable cost. If your husband is interested in landscape images I would suggest getting a wide angle (say 28mm) lens and a 'standard' 50mm lens, or a zoom lens that covers that range. A 28-80 zoom should be easy to find and be a good starting point and then he can go from there once he gets a better idea of what he wants in a lens.

Modern cameras have light meters built in while older cameras require a hand held light meter or a good understanding of judging light conditions (not something a beginner typicaly has). A tripod *might* be a good addition, but is not absolutely required. You may consider getting a set of inexpensive filters in yellow, orange, red, and perhaps green.

As for film, I have to say that C-41, or chromogenic, film is a good place to start because you can get it developed anywhere. I would also get a roll or two of 'regular' black and white film so that he can try developing at home. The process is simple and there are any number of books (including those you have chosen already) that explain the process as well as very good directions on the Ilford website (http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=16).

To develop film at home you need very little really. A two reel tank, two reels, a changing bag (large or extra large), and the chemicals (developer, fixer, and perhaps some wetting agent at a minimum). A darkroom is nice, but not required unless you want to print, and even then a spare bathroom will do.

The advantage of having someone else do the film developing is that you can also have them provide proof prints of the negatives. If you develop at home, you can have someone else print the ones you like or you could scan them.

The thing to remember when starting out is not to get bogged down in the super-fine details. Get the basics down and then begin to work on improving things one at a time and at your (his) own pace. It is very easy to wrapped up in all the technical tweaks and never get a firm understanding of the basics, which can easily lead to frustration. In my experience, understanding comes quickly if you move at your own pace rather than attempt to rocket directly into super-fine control in a futile attempt to 'keep up with the (photographic) Joneses' as it were.

- Randy

 

[reellis67]

Some other good beginner books are the two by Bernhard Suess:

Mastering Black-And-White Photography: From Camera to Darkroom

and

Creative Black and White Photography: Advance Camera and Darkroom Techniques

These are not the only good books out there, but they are books that I have read and gotten something out of. There are many, many more out there that I have not had a chance to read that I am sure are also useful.

- Randy

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Robbin,

4x5 inch camera

Polaroid back

Box(es) of 4x5 inch Polaroid B+W film

and search REALLY HARD for AA's Polaroid book! (I have a copy but it's not for sale).

Cheers,

R (Take a look at The Photo School on www.rogerandfrances.com too)

 

[Ole]

I'm a large format user, and MF for portability on "non-photographic" trips, but the camera that's impressed me most in the small, simple and cheap (!) Voigtländer Bessas. I've got two now - a Bessa-L and a Bessa-T. Either one, coupled with a 21mm Color-Skopar, is an amazinglt compact package capable of results that are absolutely stunning.

The ultra-wide view can be difficult to learn to use, but once it's there it's wonderful.

 

[Nick Zentena]

I was going to say what Roger said.

 

[Arelia99]

I would agree with the advice above! Especially the use of chromogenic B&W...they are the ones that can be bought lots of places and say "For Color processing only". Ditto picking up a used SLR...Nikon FM10 and Canon AE1 are ones that I have used and found good to start with. Also agree that a wide angle lens would be useful...so I would recommend even a 24-105mm lens if you can find one for a good price. If you buy off ebay (good slr deals are not hard to find there) I woulld say be proactive and just plan on taking it to your local camera repair store and have them clean it. Good luck and I hope he has fun!

Nancy

Ps...just to contradict what I said above...if you want to go the rangefinder route I would agree with Ole...I have the Bessa Lwith a 25mm lens and it is a very nice little camera with a great ability to do landscapes (albiet 35mm)...
For this you might check this out:
http://cameraquest.com/voigrf.htm

TTFN

 

[SuzanneR]

Why not find him a simple gently used 35mm manual camera (KEH.com), some reels and tanks, a changing bag, some liquid developer (HC-110?) some fix, a brick of tri-x or hp5, and a good book to explain the process?? Perfect holiday gift for the budding Ansel in any family!! Oh... and some photo-flo for a stocking stuffer.

Merry Christmas!

 

[srs5694]

First, I think a bit of clarification from robbinbaker may be helpful. First, what's your budget? One person's "fortune" (to use your word) is another person's pocket change. Second, does your husband have any cameras or photographic experience already? If so, you might want to build on what he's already got rather than start with a basic camera. If not, the suggestion of a basic 35mm camera is a good one. Third, what sort of services does that "nice local lab" offer? If they do conventional B&W processing, then I'd say to ignore the recommendations of buying chromogenic (C-41) B&W film, or at least offer a slower emulsion in addition to a C-41 film, all of which are ISO 400 films.

Since you mention medium format, I'll comment that MF gear is still much more expensive than 35mm gear. This might or might not push it outside of your price range. MF film is also harder to get processed than 35mm film. Check with that local lab about the availability of MF processing before you spring for an MF camera. If the lab doesn't process MF film, you may have to mail-order the processing or your husband may need to do it himself. As reelis67 says, it's not really that hard, but if you think going this route is inevitable, you'll want to buy some extra stuff. Check Freestyle; they've got kits with most of the hardware you need for film processing, which are an easy way to get started. You'll also need chemicals.

 

[copake_ham]

I echo those who suggest a good manual focus 35mm SLR - my favorite in this flavor is the Nikon F3HP. It can be had on eBay in excellent condition with a reasonably fast 50mm (f 1.8 or 2.0) lens for around $350 to $400 (usually with the case).

Why anyone would recommend a beginner start with 4x5 format is beyond me.

 

[dancqu]

...a very busy man who's got a burning desire to drive
all over ...taking photos that remind him of Ansel. ... he
doesn't have much time to really really learn the art of the
craft,...What should I buy him for Christmas to encourage
this dream? Robbin

Has he entertained this desire over the years? A sudden
yen he has developed upon seeing some fine B&W prints?
Perhaps he has encountered some of the very splendidly
crafted equipment used in taking landscapes?

Don't be intimidated. If he really wishes to enter into
the spirit of the undertaking start right out with a 4x5
view camera and a landscape lens. A darkroom to
match is a necessity.

I did that many years ago. Went from 35mm and 4x5
point and shoot to a 4x5 monorail complete with a war
surplus 4x5 cold light enlarger. Some of my very first
shots printed very nicely. Dan

 

[AgCl4ever]

It is possible to take excellent pictures with $50 worth of used 35mm camera... but, learning to make "Ansel" prints while driving around with no time is going to be a tall order. Rather than getting into buying lots of equipment, I would (assuming he does not have much photo background) suggest getting him a manual 35mm slr with a normal lens, and... get him a photo workshop as his *big* gift, preferably a black and white film workshop, but any weekend type film based course as a starter.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

get him a photo workshop as his *big* gift, preferably a black and white film workshop, but any weekend type film based course as a starter.

Good advice.

But since good advice is so rarely taken...

I vote with the 4x5 crowd, if you want the AA look big negatives are the only way to do it (easily): I suggest a Crown or Speed Graphic camera.

To develop and print 4x5 all you need are 4 baking dishes, a red lamp, a white lamp, a peice of glass and a a few bottles of chemicals. You get 4x5 inch prints, of course.

Hmpf: A Speed and a Kodak ABC PhotoLab box. Should satisfy the kid in anyone.

If he gets hooked, 4x5 enlargers are selling for close to nothing these days.