Advice for what to do about newly bought Pentax 6x7 with winding issue after two rolls -- videos inside

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Hello,

I bought a Pentax 6x7 not long ago from a Japanese ebay seller. It is the older non MLU version. The camera is in good condition overall. The winding felt a little bit stiff for the two rolls that I put through it, but it did wind for each roll all the way through, although it did at times feel slightly "stuck". I just assumed it was the way this camera feels to wind -- I'm not an expert and haven't handled that many cameras, especially medium format.

Today, I finished a roll and was winding it up, and it felt especially stiff and wrong. When I wrapped up the roll and went to put in another, I notice that it's not properly winding the new roll on the spool. It will sometimes spin the spool, sometimes not. I eventually discover what I think is a sign of a stripped cog of some kind -- if I turn the spool a little bit, it will "catch" for a certain part of the winding, and then will be stripped again and not rotate, even while I'm winding. Here are a few videos:





I've let the ebay seller know that the camera is not operational and that all I've done is use it in a completely normal way for two rolls, all of which were shot entirely indoors (minus one shot) and on a tripod. This is pretty concerning to me because it happened so soon after getting the camera, and because it's so expensive. I told him I'd like to return it for a refund, but I kind of suspect that isn't going to fly, because it didn't arrive broken -- it just broke right after I received it.

Any ideas on what to do in a situation like this, assuming the seller won't be "on the hook" for fixing it or refunding me? And by the way, I'm not saying that's wrong -- I am asking for it because I feel weird buying something that immediately broke, but I'm not saying it's weird or wrong of them to not claim responsibility. Any idea how much money and time it would cost to fix? I'm located on the West Coast of the US but have no local options. I paid $700 after all tax and shipping for the camera, and it has the 75mm f4.5 on it.

Options seem to be:

1. fight ebay to get a refund -- I think this would probably work but also seems kind of like a dick move somehow. Idk how much expectation is "too much" here. Note that the camera was also listed as an MLU by the seller but was actually not an MLU -- he refunded me $50 after I complained about it. I think I should have just returned it at this point :sad:
1.5. Fight ebay for a partial refund
2. Pay for repair of the camera. I think this would cost a substantial amount of money
3. Sell the camera in it's current state -- I'm guessing I would take a massive loss
4. Buy a new body (around $400 for MLU) and sell the old body taking a substantial loss, just use my prism finder and lens

Let me know what you think. I am not versed in what one may expect buying old cameras, and I feel like it's a bit...too much for it to have broken this easily after normal use, but I'm open-minded to it just being my fault -- I don't know how to determine that without additional guidance. Thank you!
 
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MARTIE

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Return the camera for a full refund.

You bought the camera in good faith and thought the stiff wind-on was due to lack of use.
However, in reality, the camera was always broken.

Disregard all other options.
 
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Return the camera for a full refund.

You bought the camera in good faith and thought the stiff wind-on was due to lack of use.
However, in reality, the camera was always broken.

Disregard all other options.

Thanks for the reply. I sent the seller some videos and they agreed to have me send it back for a full refund. May end up buying a different MF camera, or just another Pentax 6x7, could have been a dud and apparently this isn't as common of an issue with the actual new(er) MLU versions.
 

MFstooges

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I hope you read the manual. This camera has weak film advance mechanism, plus the 6X7 has specific sequence regarding shutter and film advance. The dry fire can only be done with 2 methods and I think you have to close the back.
 

guangong

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I hope you read the manual. This camera has weak film advance mechanism, plus the 6X7 has specific sequence regarding shutter and film advance. The dry fire can only be done with 2 methods and I think you have to close the back.

I’m always somewhat surprised how many people use unfamiliar cameras without reading manuals first. While most cameras are pretty much alike, there are often slight differences that one should be aware. Offhand examples, Kodak Medalist, original Hasselblad 1000F, both demand a rigid sequence for advancing, cocking, and releasing shutter.
A wise move is to read manual and reviews if camera BEFORE making purchase.
 

Rick A

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Contact the seller and start a return. My experience with Japanese sellers is they are willing to take their gear back and give full refunds.
 
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Contact the seller and start a return. My experience with Japanese sellers is they are willing to take their gear back and give full refunds.

Thankfully this is the case and he already accepted my return. I sent him detailed videos showing how the winding mechanism isn't working, so he knows what to expect. Glad to have this advice here, because I don't really know what's "proper"!
 

Sirius Glass

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Hello,

1. fight ebay to get a refund -- I think this would probably work but also seems kind of like a dick move somehow. Idk how much expectation is "too much" here. Note that the camera was also listed as an MLU by the seller but was actually not an MLU -- he refunded me $50 after I complained about it. I think I should have just returned it at this point :sad:
1.5. Fight ebay for a partial refund
2. Pay for repair of the camera. I think this would cost a substantial amount of money
3. Sell the camera in it's current state -- I'm guessing I would take a massive loss
4. Buy a new body (around $400 for MLU) and sell the old body taking a substantial loss, just use my prism finder and lens

Let me know what you think. I am not versed in what one may expect buying old cameras, and I feel like it's a bit...too much for it to have broken this easily after normal use, but I'm open-minded to it just being my fault -- I don't know how to determine that without additional guidance. Thank you!

  1. Contact the seller and explain the situation. See how the seller responds.
  2. If #1 is not to your satisfaction, Contact eBay as ask for a full refund.
  3. If you have gotten here send it out for a repair estimate at a place like KEH.com or other reputable repair place. Then ask for a partial refund accordingly.
  4. Sell the [old] body and buy a newer body.
 

MattKing

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  1. Contact the seller and explain the situation. See how the seller responds.
  2. If #1 is not to your satisfaction, Contact eBay as ask for a full refund.
  3. If you have gotten here send it out for a repair estimate at a place like KEH.com or other reputable repair place. Then ask for a partial refund accordingly.
  4. Sell the [old] body and buy a newer body.

It seems @Sirius Glass missed the fact that the seller has already agreed to a return for full refund.
 

mshchem

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I've had great experiences buying from Japan. Some of the problems arise buying from folks that don't understand the product they're selling. If you want a Pentax 67 there's other options, right now the exchange rate makes buying from Japan very attractive. Maybe try again.
 

Tom Taylor

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The film advance mechanism has been a perennial problem with all versions of the P67. It locked-up on my 67II while on a road trip in Utah and I drove 100 miles to Salt Lake City to a Pentax service center and paid them something like $150 to get it back working. A couple of months later the same thing happened and I sent it back to SLC where they again repaired it but, like before, without replacing any parts. On the 3d time I called Pentax Repair in Golden Colorado and sent them the camera. They rebuilt the film advance mechanism and since then (~15 years) have not had any issues. I'm careful not to advance the frame as energetically as I did in the past.
 

mtjade2007

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The film advance mechanism has been a perennial problem with all versions of the P67. It locked-up on my 67II while on a road trip in Utah and I drove 100 miles to Salt Lake City to a Pentax service center and paid them something like $150 to get it back working. A couple of months later the same thing happened and I sent it back to SLC where they again repaired it but, like before, without replacing any parts. On the 3d time I called Pentax Repair in Golden Colorado and sent them the camera. They rebuilt the film advance mechanism and since then (~15 years) have not had any issues. I'm careful not to advance the frame as energetically as I did in the past.
There were a number of reports of similar or same issue with P67-ii on the internet some years ago. I had the problem too after I got mine in 2002. It turned out it has nothing to do with the winding mechanism at all. It was the shutter magnet that got stock. I fixed mine with a tiny drop of ISO Alcohol (using a syringe to drop it) into the shutter magnet. I reported my fix on photo.net forum. Another p67-ii owner with the same problem contacted me asking for help. I told him everything I did in details and he had his p67-ii fixed too. My process of the fix was reproduced by a Russian guy on the internet somewhere. Ever since I haven't seen any one reporting the same issue any more.

I had the opportunity to have a good look at the winding mechanism of P67-ii when I fixed mine. In my opinion it is a very high quality high durability mechanism. You have to look at it to be impressed. I really have not seen any report of a broken winding mechanism of p67-ii. I could be wrong but I saw mine with my own eyes. It's a well built winder. You have to really abuse it to break it.
 

mtjade2007

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The shutter magnet is not only for firing the shutter. It also resets the winder so it can wind again for the next frame of film. The real problem was the shutter magnet failed to reset the winder. So it appeared to be stuck after firing the shutter. The cause of that was the magnet got contamination by dirty air (oily?) and became a little sticky. A drop of Alcohol cleaned it up and it returned to normal function in releasing the winder. I have not have the issue again for almost 20 years by now. Don't know about the winding mechanism of P6X7 and P67. But I am very confident that the p67-ii winder is a very durable one.
 

MFstooges

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The shutter magnet is not only for firing the shutter. It also resets the winder so it can wind again for the next frame of film. The real problem was the shutter magnet failed to reset the winder. So it appeared to be stuck after firing the shutter. The cause of that was the magnet got contamination by dirty air (oily?) and became a little sticky. A drop of Alcohol cleaned it up and it returned to normal function in releasing the winder. I have not have the issue again for almost 20 years by now. Don't know about the winding mechanism of P6X7 and P67. But I am very confident that the p67-ii winder is a very durable one.

I never have problem with my P67ii film winding. I do have problem with P err code, it always appears in a very wrong moment. I also had problem with jammed prism release button so I send the camera to a shop and requested to fix the buttons + fix P err code + CLA. The P err code recently reappeared, it is still a mistery to me.
 

DREW WILEY

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The somewhat more complex design of the 66 ii version seems to make it more susceptible to certain issues than the previous MLU model. Since I developed three problems all at once, including the winder advance issue, only after 45 years or hard outdoor use, including three hard drops, it's hardly worth the trouble and expense to repair that particular body. I'm a bit creaky myself after that same span of time.
 

mtjade2007

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What were the three issues your P67-ii got? There have been very few talks about P67-ii seems to indicate fewer issues with this camera. Maybe it wasn't sold in high volume before it was discontinued. But the stuck winder seems to be the main problem reported on the internet.
 

DREW WILEY

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I don't own a P67 II model. Don't need or want one. They were nice for astro photographers who make very long exposures because there isn't anywhere near as much battery drain using the mirror lock-up feature as the previous models. Quite a few of them sold; and there are other web forums dedicated to Pentax gear and amateur astro photography. Some of them were modified with a 220 vacuum back for sake of a very precise film plane. The most complaints are in relation to the linkage chain being a lot more susceptible to failure than in the previous MLU model. But I prefer more simplified, less-electronic gear in general.

The main advantage of the II model right now is that they are newer, and more likely to be found in good condition. The main disadvantage is their much higher price. A number of the older MLU's are starting to show signs of light gasket failure - it gets gummy and sticky, and starts decomposing. It's relatively easy in theory and inexpensive to replace all that oneself, but a bit of an afternoon headache
too.
 

DREW WILEY

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No. It's the latter model, the II version, which had more chain failure complaints. Exactly why that was the case, I cannot say.
 

dave olson

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I was forced to replace my old 6x7 ML. I got on eBay and checked out 6x7's for sale from Japan. Found one advertised as mint + and ordered it. I have used Pentax 6x7s since the 1990s without any problem, until recently. The Japanese are great on that score since your camera is not "right" return it.
 
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I was forced to replace my old 6x7 ML. I got on eBay and checked out 6x7's for sale from Japan. Found one advertised as mint + and ordered it. I have used Pentax 6x7s since the 1990s without any problem, until recently. The Japanese are great on that score since your camera is not "right" return it.

Camera just arrived back in Japan after the seller agreed to take it back for a full refund. I ended up buying a Mamiya Press Super 23 instead of the Pentax since I couldn't find another one at the same deal I got the original for, so waiting for that from Japan. May end up with another Pentax eventually in the future!
 

MFstooges

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No. It's the latter model, the II version, which had more chain failure complaints. Exactly why that was the case, I cannot say.

67ii doesn't use chain or at least to my knowledge I can detach the prism whenever I want and never see a chain.
 

DREW WILEY

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You're right! My mistake for not being more cautious with web rumors. But there are some relatively recent threads on this Forum regarding difficulty getting version II repairs due to the extra electronics.
Solenoid problems are among those cited over on the Pentax Forum. Statistically, that might not be common; but the older models remain easier to repair, it seems. The simpler, the better.
 
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