Advice for MF Camera for Babies/Todlers

brent8927 · May 12, 2017

My wife and I have a little one on the way. We have a point and shoot as well as iPhones that if needed can be used for those absolute spur of the moment photo ops. For the most part my wife would be taking those photos.

I want to continue taking 6x6 B&W photos until I die. I'd like to produce some timeless (and I'm sure at least 10x more useless/blurry) photos as our child grows up.

For the last 15 years all I have used is a Hasselblad, and for 13 of those years all I used was an 80mm lens with it. It can be slow for me to take photos of my wife even when she poses for me. This has me worried about when our baby starts running around. I realize any manual focus camera will be difficult/slow, but I would like to avoid a DSLR (or equivalent) at all costs. I'd like a good-quality 6x6 camera to photograph our child. I'm sure for staged photos, continued portraits of my wife, and my nature photography, that the Hasselblad will still be best.

I'm thinking something a little quicker/easier to focus would work better as the kid moves around. I'd like to hear others' opinions. Here is what I'm thinking:

1) Use a quick focusing lever? I've never tried this, but I believe I need to take off the focusing grip, which would make using the camera less enjoyable for most of the shots I take. Maybe I just put it on the 120mm? I'm not sure if the focusing grip needs to be removed in that case (I don't know for sure--it's just such a large grip it would seem odd to remove it).

2) Buy an 80 CFI as it focuses much smoother than a CF lens. Or a 100mm?

3) Look into a Rolleiflex TLR. We used to have a Rolleicord and I felt it focused pretty quickly.

Preference would be to adapt the Hasselblad to work faster. I want to keep shooting WLF 6x6. I get a prism would be faster, but it ruins the enjoyment for me. I want to enjoy taking photos of my kids as much (if not more) than getting a higher rate of in-focus/quality photos. I know maybe those priorities seem backwards, but I'm a believer that sometimes the fewer photos you have, the more special and unique they are, and the better they bring back memories. Hence a primary reason I still shoot film when all my friends shoot digital.

howardpan · May 12, 2017

I was in the same situation. My daughter is 1.5 years old now; she still wobbles when she walks; so I don't know if my solution will work when she starts to run.

I bought a 6x7 rangefinder - Makina 67. First, it is much lighter and nimble so I can position myself as needed. Sometime I crawl around on the floor so that I can photograph her at her eye level. Second, I wanted something that reduces the shutter vibration so that I can have the ability to shoot at a lower shutter speed and increase my DOF. Third, Higher speed EI helps as well. I have had good experience with a 400 speed film pushed to 1600 in Spur SLD.

The real trick is to get her to laugh, look in the direction you want, and then get the shot quickly. You may have to go back and forth between the baby and your camera unless your wife helps you.

brent8927 · May 12, 2017

I suppose an alternate is to get a 203FE and put it in aperture priority, but that would cost quite a bit (plus I'd need a CFE lens) and to my knowledge they're near impossible to service these days...

ac12 · May 12, 2017

I don't think the CFi will a BIG improvement over the CF, as the CF is over the C.
For quick work don't go UP in focal length, because the focusing will be more critical with the longer lenses. Maybe go with a 60mm lens on your Hasselblad.

Since your wife will be shooting, is she a dedicated 6x6 shooter also?
There are decent P&S/compact 35mm cameras. I still have my old Nikon P&S, and as I recall, it did pretty well as a general purpose camera.

winger · May 12, 2017

My son is now 7 and the only film camera I've gotten decent shots of him in motion with has been my Pentax 645N. It has autofocus which is fairly good and helps get some good shots. The best ones were back when he could sit but not walk. The only way I could get him to stay still enough was to hand him a toy. He's a little better now, but I've learned to just deal with autofocus (I rarely use it other than on him). The P645N isn't bad to handhold either. I have a Hasselblad 503cxi, but I can't hold it straight very well to handhold shots with it.

Congratulations and enjoy!!!

brent8927 · May 12, 2017

ac12 said:
I don't think the CFi will a BIG improvement over the CF, as the CF is over the C.
For quick work don't go UP in focal length, because the focusing will be more critical with the longer lenses. Maybe go with a 60mm lens on your Hasselblad.

Since your wife will be shooting, is she a dedicated 6x6 shooter also?
There are decent P&S/compact 35mm cameras. I still have my old Nikon P&S, and as I recall, it did pretty well as a general purpose camera.

My wife would just be using an iPhone or the LX100 (a nicer point-and-shoot).

I'd really like to just stick with 6x6, with a WLF. I know 35mm is faster--I'm just a sucker for the big square negatives. I've tried shooting with other cameras--but I just don't enjoy them (35mm with prism, rangefinders, etc.). I'm willing to sacrifice convenience, so my main concern is what I can do to make the Hasselblad more convenient for taking photos of a child, or would another 6x6 camera with a WLF work noticeably better (like a TLR).

I do have a 60mm. It's a CB, so it focuses easier than the 80mm CF, but I do find the large helicoid of the 120mm CF makes it a lot easier to focus than the 80. I thought that might make "action shots" easier to hone in on. (I just don't do any action shots, so it was just a guess)

MattKing · May 12, 2017

I don't own or use a Hasselblad, but with my Mamiya 645 Pro I find that a combination of a left hand trigger grip and a quick focusing lever it is quite easy to work quickly.
The 55mm lens on that camera is a good choice for things like kids, so I expect that a 60mm lens on the Hasselblad would also help.

brent8927 · May 12, 2017

winger said:
My son is now 7 and the only film camera I've gotten decent shots of him in motion with has been my Pentax 645N. It has autofocus which is fairly good and helps get some good shots. The best ones were back when he could sit but not walk. The only way I could get him to stay still enough was to hand him a toy. He's a little better now, but I've learned to just deal with autofocus (I rarely use it other than on him). The P645N isn't bad to handhold either. I have a Hasselblad 503cxi, but I can't hold it straight very well to handhold shots with it.

Congratulations and enjoy!!!

Ah--so I just need to bribe my kids--I can do that!

I don't know why, but I just don't enjoy autofocus. Perhaps it's just the subject matter I enjoy photographing rarely would benefit from autofocus. I really enjoy manual focus, and to date I've tested an autofocus camera in manual focus mode and liked the way the manual focus felt.

Kind of like how I'm a one-woman kind of guy, I preferably see myself as a one-camera kind of guy. I just enjoy photography that much more with just one camera. I know I'm thinking about it backwards-instead of thinking about what tool will give me the results I need (an argument to have many cameras, including a DLSR), I think about what camera gives me the better/more memorable and mindful experience. I've tried many different cameras (4x5 monorail, 35mm manual, 35mm autofocus, 35mm DSLR, "professional"/manual digital point and shoot, 35mm rangefinder, 6x6 with prism, and briefly a TLR), and it always comes back to the Hasselblad as the most enjoyable to use. I actually rather dislike using the others, though from what I recall, I did like the TLR, other than it being more awkward to hold and use. Also, I do tend to care a lot about precise framing, so the TLR is a drawback there.

Ko.Fe. · May 12, 2017

Getting new camera because of newborn is very common excuse for G.A.S. But if you were able to use film camera for whatever years it was used, you'll be able to use it with newborn.

Newborn is practically motionless. Surround baby by good light and this is it. Once they will grow, all you have to do is to ask to jump where you ask them to jump. Pre-focus and fire once kid is at the position you are focused on.
And do not hesitate to learn how to use flash.

P.S. For digi-shots, gear talks I highly recommend P.O.T.N.

etn · May 13, 2017

Buy an SWC and use the huge depth of field instead of autofocus

Advantage: you can reuse the Hassy gear (in particular, film magazines) you already own.
It is quite a financial "investment" (I generally don't like this word when referring to photo gear),
but one that does not depreciate nor risks to suddenly turn into a $2000 paperweight if electronics fails.

You will need to get *very* close. The SWC requires a complete different way of shooting.
A fast film (1600 or more) might be necessary for shooting indoors, not sure if that is an option to you.

An alternative IMO, if fast lenses are needed e.g. for indoors, would be a 35mm with e.g. 50mm 1.4 lens,
SLR or rangefinder. I will not develop further as this does not seem to be an option you are considering
at this point.

TLRs are great, in particular Rolleiflexes - but be aware that focus screens can be dim.
I never could focus mine quickly for that reason.
Therefore factor in the cost of a mirror cleaning + new screen if you want to follow that route.

Hope this helps

etn

Alan Gales · May 13, 2017

A baby Rollei?

brent8927 · May 13, 2017

etn said:
Buy an SWC and use the huge depth of field instead of autofocus

Advantage: you can reuse the Hassy gear (in particular, film magazines) you already own.
It is quite a financial "investment" (I generally don't like this word when referring to photo gear),
but one that does not depreciate nor risks to suddenly turn into a $2000 paperweight if electronics fails.

You will need to get *very* close. The SWC requires a complete different way of shooting.
A fast film (1600 or more) might be necessary for shooting indoors, not sure if that is an option to you.

An alternative IMO, if fast lenses are needed e.g. for indoors, would be a 35mm with e.g. 50mm 1.4 lens,
SLR or rangefinder. I will not develop further as this does not seem to be an option you are considering
at this point.

TLRs are great, in particular Rolleiflexes - but be aware that focus screens can be dim.
I never could focus mine quickly for that reason.
Therefore factor in the cost of a mirror cleaning + new screen if you want to follow that route.

Hope this helps

etn

Haha--sounds tempting. I generally prefer a shorter DOF when possible, and to be honest I'm not the biggest fan of wide angles. I'm actually trying to sell my 50mm because I just don't particularly like the wide angle perspective. I'd worry with a SWC you'd get even more distortion (I know you get less linear distortion, but noses/faces will still be more distorted than with say, an 80 or 150mm).

I hadn't thought about needing to pay for a mirror cleaning/new screen for a TLR. Come to think of it, my Rolleicord (actually my wife's--I bought it for her as a gift in our first year of dating) was fairly dim from what I recall, even in daylight.

I've been fiddling around with my 60mm CB lens and notice that I can turn it far quicker than my 80mm CF. Is this just due to the newer design, or does that possibly suggest the lubricant in my CF lens is drying up/getting thick? I believe I have one of the "newest" CF lenses, but they are still fairly old. I haven't gotten a CLA for it since I bought it, though the problem is David Odess is pretty backed up and I need that lens in a month and a half for a cross-country trip with my Dad (we're flying my pregnant wife to Seattle while we do the move) and hit up a lot of national parks. Then the baby is due two months later... No good time to send the lens in for the CLA with his current turnaround.

I still would like a short tele-photo for the baby. I'm wondering if trading in my 120 CF for a CB/CFI or a 150 CFI would lead to a noticeable difference. I remember using a 160mm and it seemed pretty darn fast to focus (for a Hassy lens). Problem was it just didn't seem all that sharply focused (maybe that would be a plus for a toddler always in motion...?)

I want to thank everyone for their advice so far. As you can tell I'm clearly thinking (typing) out loud here. I think I've talked myself out of any kind of new system and would just like to optimize my current one as best as I can.

brent8927 · May 13, 2017

Alan Gales said:
A baby Rollei?

Now that's a great idea--hook them while they're young! I'm in my 30's, so if I want film to stick around I need to get the younger generation addicted to film!

mike c · May 13, 2017

I used a my Hasselblad with the 80mm lens, 45 deg. penta prism and a pistol grip. The penta prism and pistol grip enabled for stable sharp negs at 1/125 sec and shorter speeds, the penta prism pressed up against my fore head and the pistol grip let me swing around and get action shoots. Or I would set the camera on a try pod and just photograph them doing kid activity's in the back yard with the 80mm or 150mm lens. They have many moods and a lot of energy. Never really posed any shots. Indoors I used 35mm point and shoot with flash and sometime,s the Hasselblad on tripod with enough available light.
I have the older CM lens and did not have the quick focus thingy,it would have made focusing easier I suppose or a more modern lens. I even toke the Hassey into the delivery room for two of my kids birth. That was 30 years ago, and I have hundreds of color and BW negs and photo,s and I'm glad I took that time to do it, but do not over do it, sometimes they just want to interact with the old man and have fun, no press time.
One other thing, do not crowd them with the camera, the Hassey has a big square neg and I usually crop any ways, it will help with depth of field and focus error. A Rolliecord I think would be a great camera for this too

etn · May 13, 2017

brent8927 said:
Haha--sounds tempting. I generally prefer a shorter DOF when possible, and to be honest I'm not the biggest fan of wide angles. I'm actually trying to sell my 50mm because I just don't particularly like the wide angle perspective. I'd worry with a SWC you'd get even more distortion (I know you get less linear distortion, but noses/faces will still be more distorted than with say, an 80 or 150mm).

The SWC is a completely different beast than the 50. It is even wider, yes, but you cannot really compare
the two. In particular, the 38mm of the SWC has virtually no distortion. I made some selfies at arm's length with the SWC, they do not exhibit the typical wide angle effect you mention (which is generally due to barrel distortion). They look very good and natural to me - I can show you some examples if you wish (need to scan them first).

Good luck with your camera choice and congrats on your little one

anfenglin · May 13, 2017

I had a Fuji GA645, took most of the pictures of our little one with it.
Now that she's 2 1/2, I have got a Pentax 6x7, not because of her, but taking pictures of her if much easier. You can also use a waist level finder with it although i use the prism most of the time.

Sirius Glass · May 13, 2017

mike c said:
I used a my Hasselblad with the 80mm lens, 45 deg. penta prism and a pistol grip. The penta prism and pistol grip enabled for stable sharp negs at 1/125 sec and shorter speeds, the penta prism pressed up against my fore head and the pistol grip let me swing around and get action shoots. Or I would set the camera on a try pod and just photograph them doing kid activity's in the back yard with the 80mm or 150mm lens. They have many moods and a lot of energy. Never really posed any shots. Indoors I used 35mm point and shoot with flash and sometime,s the Hasselblad on tripod with enough available light.
I have the older CM lens and did not have the quick focus thingy,it would have made focusing easier I suppose or a more modern lens. I even toke the Hassey into the delivery room for two of my kids birth. That was 30 years ago, and I have hundreds of color and BW negs and photo,s and I'm glad I took that time to do it, but do not over do it, sometimes they just want to interact with the old man and have fun, no press time.
One other thing, do not crowd them with the camera, the Hassey has a big square neg and I usually crop any ways, it will help with depth of field and focus error. A Rolliecord I think would be a great camera for this too

I would go with the 80mm lens and the 45 degree PME prism. That way you can get your light reading and follow the motion without the left-right reversal. At times you may want the 50mm, 60mm or 100mm lens, but as much as I love the SWC, I think it is too wide most of the time for following toddlers.

chassis · May 13, 2017

Another manual focus medium format camera will not change the speed, quality or ease of making pictures. No question that a Hasselblad can deliver the goods, so the recommendation is to build the good foundation you have started.

Three suggestions:
1. Acquire accessories for your Hasselblad system that make picture taking easier, faster and higher quality. You mentioned a focus lever to speed focus acquisition. Another suggestion is a prism finder, either chimney or angle style, to see the image in a familiar orientation. Another is a grip of some kind, to improve ergonomics of the process.

2. Improve your technique, with the aim of improving speed and ease while preserving your own ideal of quality. Some people call this practice. Take lots of pictures. Through that process there will be many duds, but there will emerge some good ones and you will learn from this.

3. Improve the management of your subject. This might be better labeled "2b". This means setting the stage for your wife and child, and preparing the camera position, exposure (which you would have pre-metered), background, props, etc. When you subject(s) enter stage and the decisive moment arrives, make the image. This suggestion takes practice, and does not of itself require new gear. Lots can be done in the typical living room with natural light.

Bottom line is practice. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket and want more gear, build on your Hasselblad set.

Harry Stevens · May 13, 2017

Just sling a Holga into the mix for something different.

brent8927 · May 13, 2017

etn said:
The SWC is a completely different beast than the 50. It is even wider, yes, but you cannot really compare
the two. In particular, the 38mm of the SWC has virtually no distortion. I made some selfies at arm's length with the SWC, they do not exhibit the typical wide angle effect you mention (which is generally due to barrel distortion). They look very good and natural to me - I can show you some examples if you wish (need to scan them first).

Good luck with your camera choice and congrats on your little one

chassis said:
Another manual focus medium format camera will not change the speed, quality or ease of making pictures. No question that a Hasselblad can deliver the goods, so the recommendation is to build the good foundation you have started.

Three suggestions:
1. Acquire accessories for your Hasselblad system that make picture taking easier, faster and higher quality. You mentioned a focus lever to speed focus acquisition. Another suggestion is a prism finder, either chimney or angle style, to see the image in a familiar orientation. Another is a grip of some kind, to improve ergonomics of the process.

2. Improve your technique, with the aim of improving speed and ease while preserving your own ideal of quality. Some people call this practice. Take lots of pictures. Through that process there will be many duds, but there will emerge some good ones and you will learn from this.

3. Improve the management of your subject. This might be better labeled "2b". This means setting the stage for your wife and child, and preparing the camera position, exposure (which you would have pre-metered), background, props, etc. When you subject(s) enter stage and the decisive moment arrives, make the image. This suggestion takes practice, and does not of itself require new gear. Lots can be done in the typical living room with natural light.

Bottom line is practice. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket and want more gear, build on your Hasselblad set.

Sounds like good advice. I'm used to photographing rocks/trees (things that don't move!) or my wife (who puts up with the amount of time it takes to set up a shot), so I will need to learn to adapt.

I don't think the SWC that others mentioned would work for me--I just don't like the look of anything wider than 60mm, and I don't see the SWC being conducive to the portraits I like to take. I'm already trying to sell my 50mm--I'm hoping to buy a CFI or CB 120mm as mine is a CF, a little more beat up, and I'd prefer the ergonomics of the CFI to the CB as I can focus easier. From a few photo.net forums, it sounds like a lot of Hassy shooters found the 120 worked great for kids as you can also focus quite close, but also gives you the flexibility to stay further away and be a little less intimidating. Obviously when the kid is further away, it's a little easier to keep them in focus.

adelorenzo · May 13, 2017

Another vote for TLR. My Mamiya C330 with 80mm lens is my goto for shooting the kid (currently 18 months old). Easy to get down to kid level with the waist level finder and I don't find focusing too challenging.

Everything square in this album is on the Mamiya. Also note that I've managed to shoot him with my 4x5 so speed isn't always super critical.

Dead Link Removed

My biggest tip is buy some Delta 3200 for the birth at the hospital. I don't normally shoot the stuff but it was invaluable for the time we spent there under terrible lighting.

Sirius Glass · May 13, 2017

chassis said:
Another manual focus medium format camera will not change the speed, quality or ease of making pictures. No question that a Hasselblad can deliver the goods, so the recommendation is to build the good foundation you have started.

Three suggestions:
1. Acquire accessories for your Hasselblad system that make picture taking easier, faster and higher quality. You mentioned a focus lever to speed focus acquisition. Another suggestion is a prism finder, either chimney or angle style, to see the image in a familiar orientation. Another is a grip of some kind, to improve ergonomics of the process.

2. Improve your technique, with the aim of improving speed and ease while preserving your own ideal of quality. Some people call this practice. Take lots of pictures. Through that process there will be many duds, but there will emerge some good ones and you will learn from this.

3. Improve the management of your subject. This might be better labeled "2b". This means setting the stage for your wife and child, and preparing the camera position, exposure (which you would have pre-metered), background, props, etc. When you subject(s) enter stage and the decisive moment arrives, make the image. This suggestion takes practice, and does not of itself require new gear. Lots can be done in the typical living room with natural light.

Bottom line is practice. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket and want more gear, build on your Hasselblad set.

Add to that using ISO 400 film, shooting at higher speeds and using the depth of field to get everything is the subject range in focus using the hyper focal distance.

papagene · May 13, 2017

When my kids were small (they are your age now) I got some pretty good shots with a Yashica Mat 124g. Sometimes you just need to set up an interesting composition and let them react in that space.

brent8927 · May 13, 2017

Thanks everyone for your advice!

I'm going to try using a focusing lever for the 80mm, but will likely plan on mostly using my 60mm (especially better indoors since there's less space to back up), as well as a 120mm. I've been meaning to get a CFI 120mm with a smoother focus ring, which should make focus/tracking a little easier when the little one starts moving.

I will of course keep shooting 400 (I actually shoot Delta 400 at 500) and am experimenting with 3200 (I started another thread on that...). If it's sunny then I use 100, but I'm never particularly happy with any photos taken in bright sun.

I guess the biggest thing is learning to set up the frame/take action shots. I'm sure I'll have some time to practice as it's not like our baby will just go from wiggling to jumping up and down overnight.

bdial · May 13, 2017

When they are still, anything will work ok. I found trying to get good shots with my nieces when they were about 4 in a playground with the Hasselblad was quite the challenge. For that I'd consider working with 35 maybe with autofocus.

But if you want to stick with the Hasselblad, I think a prism finder would be more useful than the "quick" focus lever. Using a shorter lens, like the 80 will probably be easier than a 100, 120, 150. The newer CF lenses are little faster for focusing than a C, but I don't think the quick focus lever adds that much for the handling on a C lens.

Another technique will be to work within your hyper focal distance and rely on depth of field, so faster film helps. Set the lens distance for some convenient mid point in your DOF and just concentrate on framing a shot.

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