Advantages of 35mm over MF/LF

cliveh · Oct 31, 2012

LF and MF are quite often tripod based, giving limited movements of the camera, which may be fine for a static scene. However, I remember seeing a shot in Valencia which made me sprint to the location distance I wanted and once there I could adjust my angle/height to the exact composition I wanted (all in a very short time frame). This my overiding consideration for preference of 35mm.

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 31, 2012

cliveh said:
LF and MF are quite often tripod based, giving limited movements of the camera, which may be fine for a static scene. However, I remember seeing a shot in Valencia which made me sprint to the location distance I wanted and once there I could adjust my angle/height to the exact composition I wanted (all in a very short time frame). This my overiding consideration for preference of 35mm.

I don't see how that can put 35mm head and shoulders in front of MF and LF, especially since MF and LF have bigger images, better resolultion and more flexibility in framing automation is not needed; its endemic to 35mm and a very small number of MF cameras, and entirely absence on LF. You could have actually done exactly the same sprint and height adjustment with MF, but not particularly well with LF!

The majority of my EOS1N shots were tripod-mounted; I rarely used it 'freehand'. The quality of all those images speak for themselves: no hand-held blur or shake anywhere. All my 6x7 shots are tripod based, as are pinhole shots. No big deal to me to dock camera to tripod and undock and move on; been doing that for 26 years at least.

Remember that one format camera is not going to be universally suitable for all subject matter, especially as skills and diversity build up over time.

markbarendt · Oct 31, 2012

Tripods should quite often be used with any camera, reducing movement of the camera, which normally improves photos markedly. I remember seeing a shot in Utah which made me sprint to the location distance I wanted and once there my monopod kept the camera from wobbling uncontrollably in my shaking hands. This is my overiding consideration for my preference for camera support regardless of format.

cliveh · Oct 31, 2012

Poisson Du Jour said:
I don't see how that can put 35mm head and shoulders in front of MF and LF, especially since MF and LF have bigger images, better resolultion and more flexibility in framing
Remember that one format camera is not going to be universally suitable for all subject matter, especially as skills and diversity build up over time.

I agree that one format is not going to be universally suitable for all subject matter. But how can you claim LF and MF (given tripod mount) give more flexibility for framing?

PentaxBronica · Oct 31, 2012

Not so sure about slower lenses and fewer options for available light shooting. I used a roll of Ilford Pan F in my ETR hand-held a few weeks ago, wasn't hard to keep the shutter speed up around 1/60-1/125 and the aperture around f5.6-f11.

As for lenses my 50mm and 75mm are both f2.8, that's only a stop slower than the 50mm f1.4 most 35mm systems have as a premium lens. I can shoot with those two and my 150mm and 200mm lenses hand-held even on overcast days with a roll of HP5 in the back. Shutter speed around 1/250 and apertures around f8-f5.6.

What 35mm does better is telephoto, and this is where available light does come in. I have a 200mm lens for my ETR system but even with the 2x teleconverter it's still only equivalent to something around a 240mm lens on 35mm, and you need strong sunlight even with Ilford HP5 as your maximum aperture works out at f9 or so with the TC taking two stops away. I usually try to shoot a stop or two down from wide open as most lenses perform better there, so now you're looking for conditions to support 1/500 at f16. This doesn't generally happen for most of the year here!

Stephanie Brim · Oct 31, 2012

The regular SLR cameras are harder to hand hold. I find the TLRs with the leaf shutters to be IMPRESSIVELY easy to do this with. If I have a prism/porrofinder on my Mamiya C3, I can hold the thing reasonably steady at 1/8 second. Heh. But with the majority of options, that would be impossible.

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 31, 2012

cliveh said:
I agree that one format is not going to be universally suitable for all subject matter. But how can you claim LF and MF (given tripod mount) give more flexibility for framing?

By practicing what I preach! I'm referring to the size of the format.
How is a tripod going to restrict composition and framing?

cliveh · Oct 31, 2012

Poisson Du Jour said:
By practicing what I preach! I'm referring to the size of the format.
How is a tripod going to restrict composition and framing?

Because you can't instantly move the camera 2cm to the left, or 20cm lower, or 1 metre closer in a fraction of a second.

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 31, 2012

cliveh said:
Because you can't instantly move the camera 2cm to the left, or 20cm lower, or 1 metre closer in a fraction of a second.

I don't think that is practical in action at all. Prior to docking the camera on the tripod, it is common to walk around eyeing the subject (with any format camera), and repositioning the tripod to that point. Nothing more should normally be necessary, especially nothing more with LF given the complexity and time needed to set adjustments. I've never ever needed to move the camera in a "fraction of a second": what's the hurry? If I need to tweak the image, and never quickly, I employ a tilt-shift lens, but that is entirely a separate matter to movement of the camera, which does not change.

cliveh · Oct 31, 2012

Poisson Du Jour said:
I don't think that is practical in action at all. Prior to docking the camera on the tripod, it is common to walk around eyeing the subject (with any format camera), and repositioning the tripod to that point. Nothing more should normally be necessary, especially nothing more with LF given the complexity and time needed to set adjustments. I've never ever needed to move the camera in a "fraction of a second": what's the hurry? If I need to tweak the image, and never quickly, I employ a tilt-shift lens, but that is entirely a separate matter to movement of the camera, which does not change.

We are obviously talking about a different type of scene. I am not talking about photographing rocks, but living, moving people.

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 31, 2012

If you are photographing living and moving people that is very different indeed to the premise of photographing stationary subjects — how were any of us to know what you were referring to?. If speed, spontaneity and automation is important, use whatever camera you wish for the subject if it needs speed and portability, but one cannot assume it is necessary better than MF or LF in skilled, experienced hands using less automation and refined, paced technique. Remember for decades and decades MF was the only format photographed for weddings, with many beautiful abstract processional movement images created by locals I know of (additional to static portraiture). Weddings have also been shot on pinhole cameras (!).
Probably then, MF and LF is not for those stepping from the comforts of SLRs photographing action to MF and LF, but experimenting with processes and methods in the bigger, more cumbersome and thought-intensive format can be just as educational and foregoing much-loved creature comforts of 35mm.

markbarendt · Oct 31, 2012

cliveh said:
Because you can't instantly move the camera 2cm to the left, or 20cm lower, or 1 metre closer in a fraction of a second.

Have you heard about monopods?

cliveh · Oct 31, 2012

Poisson Du Jour said:
If you are photographing living and moving people that is very different indeed to the premise of photographing stationary subjects how were any of us to know what you were referring to?. If speed, spontaneity and automation is important, use whatever camera you wish for the subject if it needs speed and portability, but one cannot assume it is necessary better than MF or LF in skilled, experienced hands using less automation and refined, paced technique. Remember for decades and decades MF was the only format photographed for weddings, with many beautiful abstract processional movement images created by locals I know of (additional to static portraiture). Weddings have also been shot on pinhole cameras (!).
Probably then, MF and LF is not for those stepping from the comforts of SLRs photographing action to MF and LF, but experimenting with processes and methods in the bigger, more cumbersome and thought-intensive format can be just as educational and foregoing much-loved creature comforts of 35mm.

I agree, but would also point out that the way of working I am suggesting is completely devoid a of thought-intensive process.

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 31, 2012

cliveh said:
I agree, but would also point out that the way of working I am suggesting is completely devoid a of thought-intensive process.

Then photography is not for you!
The best images are created in the mind's eye with considered thought. The camera is just a black box to hold the film. I don't care much for the hot-shoe-shuffle of positioning/repositioning of the physical camera and whatnot. I'm interested in capturing the image as I have envisioned it. Please move on from small matters.

Now, go out and get some photography done.

markbarendt · Oct 31, 2012

cliveh said:
I agree, but would also point out that the way of working I am suggesting is completely devoid a of thought-intensive process.

cliveh · Oct 31, 2012

Poisson Du Jour said:
Then photography is not for you

removed account4 · Oct 31, 2012

Poisson Du Jour said:
Then photography is not for you!
The best images are created in the mind's eye with considered thought. The camera is just a black box to hold the film. I don't care much for the hot-shoe-shuffle of positioning/repositioning of the physical camera and whatnot. I'm interested in capturing the image as I have envisioned it. Please move on from small matters.

Now, go out and get some photography done.

some photography is made with considered though
but i would say that not all the best photography is.
there are plenty of photographers who don't think
or don't have to think because it is second nature.

it IS possible to make photographs without thinking about it.
just as it is possible not to take 1/2 hour or an hour to compose and meter &c
a "view" with a large format camera
... i don't think i have ever spent that long ... ( 24 years with LF )
i have plenty of better things to do with my time than pointless meter readings
and waiting a hour to depress the shutter. if it took me that long to expose a frame
( i can't see why 35mm would be any different ) i'd have studied dentistry.

markbarendt · Oct 31, 2012

I think of second nature work as "applying decisions already made". This comes with experience and is independent of format or hardware constraint.

Stephanie Brim · Oct 31, 2012

jnanian said:
some photography is made with considered though
but i would say that not all the best photography is.
there are plenty of photographers who don't think
or don't have to think because it is second nature.

it IS possible to make photographs without thinking about it.
just as it is possible not to take 1/2 hour or an hour to compose and meter &c
a "view" with a large format camera
... i don't think i have ever spent that long ... ( 24 years with LF )
i have plenty of better things to do with my time than pointless meter readings
and waiting a hour to depress the shutter. if it took me that long to expose a frame
( i can't see why 35mm would be any different ) i'd have studied dentistry.

I can be ready to take a large format image in five minutes if I actually planned out beforehand what I'm doing, ten if I don't. I think that portrait sitters would revolt if it took half an hour to an hour. Hehe.

Like, right now I'm in the process of preparing to do this awesome family portrait project to ready myself for a larger one. It'll be done completely using the Speed Graphic, and the images will be taken mostly outside, though *some* inside, in landscape format. I'm playing around with a weird lens, so I'm wanting to put it through its paces to see what it can do. I have to do these quickly, so I'm going to set everything up in my backyard and go from there. Will I get weird glances from the neighbors? Yes. I'm hoping they'll be curious enough to come out and let me take their picture, too! Heh.

derwent · Nov 1, 2012

I haven't got LF...yet!
BUT...I have 30-odd 35mm cameras and one MF...I rarely use 35mm nowadays unless I'm shooting fast action stuff where autofocus and fast shutter are handy, or when I need something compact because I'm not on a photo trip but don't want to be without a camera.
Also occaisionally just because a Contflex or a Bessamatic can be fun to shoot with...

So...motorsports and action, 35mm. Everything else MF.
LF when I get my hands on one!!!

georg16nik · Nov 1, 2012

Poisson Du Jour said:
I don't think that is practical in action at all. Prior to docking the camera on the tripod, it is common to walk around eyeing the subject (with any format camera).....

Director's viewfinder comes handy regardless format.

E. von Hoegh · Nov 1, 2012

derwent said:
I haven't got LF...yet!
BUT...I have 30-odd 35mm cameras and one MF...I rarely use 35mm nowadays unless I'm shooting fast action stuff where autofocus and fast shutter are handy, or when I need something compact because I'm not on a photo trip but don't want to be without a camera.
Also occaisionally just because a Contflex or a Bessamatic can be fun to shoot with...

So...motorsports and action, 35mm. Everything else MF.
LF when I get my hands on one!!!

You know, a single 8x10 camera takes the place of more than 50 35mm cameras.

Stephanie Brim · Nov 1, 2012

I think the thing is that, depending on what type of photography you want to do, there's a camera for you. There's no reason to feel tied in to any one format. Explore them all and settle on the one that gets you the results you desire. You can take good photographs with *any* of this equipment; what matters more than the camera itself is that you're there to do it.

Advantages of 35mm over MF/LF

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