ADOX SIlvermax long term projections

Team ADOX · Nov 17, 2020

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
This is weird! Why're customers of DR5 reporting to Fotompex the problems they face with DR5 processing?! They should report the problems to DR5 and additionally make the problems known through forums such as this.

They have of course contacted them. But the response was not satisfying. And using a forum is unattractive for probably 99.9% of film photographers. That is at least our assessment if we compare the number of total Fotoimpex customers to their activity in forums.

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Anyway, can you share with us the problems DR5 customers have reported to Fotoimpex?

We will send you a conversation.

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Hey! these data sheet values, DMax and DMin, are not in your datasheet ;-P and it's a pity that I had to get them from you through this thread!

As already explained, these values differ from process to process. And they also in addition differ because of variances in processes done by photographers by themselves at home, e.g. variations in first development time due to personal preferences. Therefore it doesn't make much sense to implement them in a film data sheet.

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Now if you claim that your process gives overall better overall quality than DR5 and other processes

Sorry, but we have not claimed that at all. We've just explained that Dmin and Dmax should not be overrated, and that the image quality is dependent on a combination of several different factors.
Maybe this short example makes the point more clear: You will not see a visible difference in projection between a slide with 3.1 Dmax in comparison to a slide with 3.3 Dmax.
But you will see a significant difference between these two slides when you project one with a cheap projection lens, and the other one with a better quality lens.
And you will see a significant difference if you view one through a cheap loupe an a lighttable, and the other one with an excellent loupe.
There are factors much more important than density values.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

relistan · Nov 17, 2020

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
This is weird! Why're customers of DR5 reporting to Fotompex the problems they face with DR5 processing?! They should report the problems to DR5 and additionally make the problems known through forums such as this. Anyway, can you share with us the problems DR5 customers have reported to Fotoimpex?

You realize that Fotoimpex provides development service right? So it makes sense to tell them "I am using your service because I had trouble with DR5"

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Now if you claim that your process gives overall better overall quality than DR5 and other processes, the burden of proof is on you. Why don't you do a systematic comparison with DR5 processed film and make your study public? Wouldn't that benefit everyone?

He did not claim that.

Sal Santamaura · Nov 17, 2020

Team ADOX said:
Congratulations to your new F6 ! It is an absolutely outstanding camera.
Scala 50 currently offers the best detail rendition (highest resolution, finest grain, best sharpness) of all BW reversal films. With the F6 and Sigma Art lenses you really can fully exploit its huge potential. Project the slides with a good slide projector and excellent projection lens....and you will be hooked . Guaranteed.......

Thank you very much! It doesn't seem like mail order processing from the U.S. to PHOTOSTUDIO 13 in Leinfelden-Echterdingen would be very practical, so I'm really looking forward to your Scala reversal kit.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Nov 17, 2020

relistan said:
You realize that Fotoimpex provides development service right? So it makes sense to tell them "I am using your service because I had trouble with DR5"
.

No, I didn't know that Fotoimpex offers reversal processing (b&w slide developing) service. Do they? Or did you mean Studio 13?

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Nov 17, 2020

Team ADOX said:
As already explained, these values differ from process to process. And they also in addition differ because of variances in processes done by photographers by themselves at home, e.g. variations in first development time due to personal preferences. Therefore it doesn't make much sense to implement them in a film data sheet.

Isn't this true for any film? And yet most film manufacturers provide the characteristic curve! For example, see the datasheet of Orwo UN54. It gives characteristic curve for reversal processing of UN54 when their recommended processing is used. You can provide the same for Scala 50 for your recommended process.

Team ADOX said:
Sorry, but we have not claimed that at all.

Ok. Frankly, I don't know what DR5's high DMax reversal processing (e.g. 4.4 for Delta 100) gives in terms of viewing experience and what compromises (if any) it makes with picture quality. But I'm curious to know and find out. As your reversal kit is not yet available and DR5 process will become public only next year, any independent assessment of relative quality of the two processes isn't possible for now. But the imminent release of Scala kit and publishing of DR5 processing surely makes the future of B&W slides very interesting as far as it concerns me.

Team ADOX · Nov 18, 2020

relistan said:
You realize that Fotoimpex provides development service right? So it makes sense to tell them "I am using your service because I had trouble with DR5"

Well, yes and no . So far Fotoimpex has not offered BW reversal processing, but has added a list of generally trustworthy professional BW reversal labs (including DR5). ADOX and Fotoimpex have always tried to support these labs (and will continue to do), especially by bringing our two BW reversal films to the market.
As customers are using our Scala films, and the lab list is offered as well, it is not surprising at all that customers contact Fotoimpex in some cases when issues with processing have occured.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

Team ADOX · Nov 18, 2020

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
You can provide the same for Scala 50 for your recommended process.

But - at least so far - there has not been a "recommended" process by us. It is probably easier for you to understand if we look at the history: When the former stocks of Agfa Scala 200X came close to the end, both Scala users and the remaining BW reversal processing labs asked us to become active, and if we could create a successor film. So we started the project ADOX Scala 160. And this film was then offered to the BW reversal film market in general, independent from the specific reversal process the customers or the labs have used / are using. Some prefer process A, others B, others C. The individual preferences and tastes are different. And we totally respect that.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Nov 18, 2020

Team ADOX said:
But - at least so far - there has not been a "recommended" process by us.

If that's the case, my sincere apologies. I just now saw on Fotoimpex website that even Foma reversal kit can be used to process Scala films. It's indeed very encouraging for me that Scala films don't require a dedicated processing kit like Adox CMS 20ii. Now I need to figure out a hassle free way of getting Scala 50 in India.

Team ADOX · Nov 19, 2020

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
If that's the case, my sincere apologies. I just now saw on Fotoimpex website that even Foma reversal kit can be used to process Scala films. It's indeed very encouraging for me that Scala films don't require a dedicated processing kit like Adox CMS 20ii. Now I need to figure out a hassle free way of getting Scala 50 in India.

ADOX Scala 160 and ADOX Scala 50 can be reversal processed in about all BW reversal processes. Just use the process you like best.
With our new ADOX Scala BW reversal kit we intend to offer an additional option to the market, which offers a well balanced combination of
- excellent picture quality
- easy handling for home processing
- good shelf life
- being more health / environmentally friendly.

Concerning availability in India:
Fotoimpex is also shipping directly to customers in India. The only little disadvantage at the moment is that due to the pandemic the shipping time is longer than usual, about 3-4 weeks. We hope that our new Scala reversal kit will be available next week, so you could order the Scala films together with the kit.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

Anon Ymous · Nov 19, 2020

@Team ADOX Is Scala 50 based on Agfa Aviphot Pan 80?

Team ADOX · Nov 19, 2020

We have always been very clear and honest about the fact that the original emulsion we are using for the HR-50 and Scala 50 is an existing, well established high-resolving emulsion for technical applications from a first grade film manufacturer. This emulsion is mainly used for long-term preservation of unique pictures. In archives and government agencies for example.
We are using it as the base for our two films, and improving it significantly by our unique 'Speed-Boost' technology.
Please understand that we have contracts that protect certain trade and supplier connections. ADOX has been very transparent with many topics, and has given all members here lots of insights in how film production works. But of course we cannot reveal everything .
Thanks for your understanding.

If you compare Scala 50 to Aviphot Pan 80 or similar films in a detailed way with proper film testing techniques, you will find several significant differences, like better dynamic range for the ADOX, higher effective speed, better tonality and easier developing as well. Just to name a few.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

lantau · Nov 21, 2020

Well, the Reversal Kit is out, now. I saw their announcement on Facebook and immediately ordered a kit. There was not datasheet linked, yet. So I have no idea if there is development information for any films beyond the two Adox Scala films. Reverse dev of CHS100 II would be very useful to me, especially the sheet film. I'd also like this to be my substitute for 35mm Silvermax, so I hope it will be available in bulk rolls, soon.

DeletedAcct1 · Nov 22, 2020

lantau said:
Well, the Reversal Kit is out, now. I saw their announcement on Facebook and immediately ordered a kit. There was not datasheet linked, yet. So I have no idea if there is development information for any films beyond the two Adox Scala films. Reverse dev of CHS100 II would be very useful to me, especially the sheet film. I'd also like this to be my substitute for 35mm Silvermax, so I hope it will be available in bulk rolls, soon.

Could I ask you if you please let us informed about your tests of this kit?

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Nov 22, 2020

Alessandro Serrao said:
Could I ask you if you please let us informed about your tests of this kit?

+1

I'm curious to know whether the slides have a brown tint as observed in Lina Bessanova's video.

lantau · Nov 27, 2020

lantau said:
Well, the Reversal Kit is out, now. I saw their announcement on Facebook and immediately ordered a kit. There was not datasheet linked, yet. So I have no idea if there is development information for any films beyond the two Adox Scala films. Reverse dev of CHS100 II would be very useful to me, especially the sheet film. I'd also like this to be my substitute for 35mm Silvermax, so I hope it will be available in bulk rolls, soon.

According to Adox there will be no bulk rolls of CHS100-II for now. Only single 35mm rolls. That's good and bad. Bad because I won't use CHS100-II as my main medium speed film. Good because I was a bit anxious about the PET base for bulk loading. I generally don't like PET for 35mm film. The light piping and the terrible haptic (it doesn't feel nice to hold a 35mm PET strip in the hand). Still, it is a very nice film.

I ordered two rolls together with the Scala kit. Originally I got three rolls in January 2016, which were produced at Innoviscoat, I believe. I used one some time ago and liked it. Now, with my Silvermax stock close to gone, I used one more this summer in Italy to see again how it does. I have one of the old ones left, two new ones. If they are just as good I will probably add a few rolls to my future orders, and perhaps get the occasional 10 pack of Silvermax while it lasts. For slide only.

I've always liked Ilford FP4, but preferred to stick with Silvermax for bulk. The lower price was also much appreciated. But it is time for a bulk roll of FP4. I love handling bulk and enjoy rolling my own. And I can use it to fill my Zeiss Ikon cartidges for my Contax 2. I occasionally [use] a modern type 135 cartridge, but prefer to use the Zeiss ones. They don't stress the camera.

[inappropriate language deleted--mod.]

ADOX SIlvermax long term projections

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