ADOX SIlvermax long term projections

Deleted member 88956 · Nov 15, 2020

Since there have been some comments suggesting ADOX's Silvermax film is running on last supply fumes and will no longer be made ... where is the source for this information?

Looking at Fotoimpex there is no indication SIlvermax is no longer made, it only says it will not be manufactured in any other but 35mmm format.

I'm looking at this film for longer term commitment in my fridge, except I am not stocking up for when that asteroid hits mother earth ... eventually. But running through 10 rolls of film that is dead is not something I want to do.

DeletedAcct1 · Nov 15, 2020

It is no longer made.
Below is a quote from Adox itself about it.

Team ADOX said:
Both ADOX Silvermax and ADOX Scala 160 are still available by our main international distributor (and mother company) Fotoimpex:
https://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/filme/kleinbildfilme-135/

As we have always clearly explained, both films are technologically identical. For market and demand reasons Silvermax is focusing on the negative film market, and Scala 160 on the BW reversal film market.
We have also clearly said right from the beginning that this film production run was one single big coating run, with lots of original Agfa Leverkusen / Germany technology involved. Technology which is meanwhile not existant anymore in the same form. Therefore another production run of exactly the same film with completely identical characteristics is not possible anymore.
We are working on long term alternatives. But that is an extremely difficult and challenging project, and success of the R&D cannot be guaranteed.

We currently offer an attractive first alternative in form of the ADOX CHS 100 II.
As CHS 100 II has
- an almost identical spectral sensitivity
- an almost identical sharpness and resolution
- similar max. contrast range (dynamic range)
- similar price (CHS 100 II is even a bit cheaper)
- can also be reversal processed.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.

Witold said:
Since there have been some comments suggesting ADOX's Silvermax film is running on last supply fumes and will no longer be made ... where is the source for this information?

Looking at Fotoimpex there is no indication SIlvermax is no longer made, it only says it will not be manufactured in any other but 35mmm format.

I'm looking at this film for longer term commitment in my fridge, except I am not stocking up for when that asteroid hits mother earth ... eventually. But running through 10 rolls of film that is dead is not something I want to do.

Deleted member 88956 · Nov 15, 2020

Well, if that's the case I don't understand why this is not stated on sales page. It seems to me that clearing it out would be a beneficial move, but more importantly it would be maintaining transparency of what Adox's plans are, so not giving potential buyers this important info is not really a positive mark on their reputation. And there is dedicated developer which I would not stock on for use with other films anyways, but specifically for what it was designed for.

I really wanted to try it out, but with it being dead beat I don't think I will.

DeletedAcct1 · Nov 15, 2020

Witold said:
Well, if that's the case I don't understand why this is not stated on sales page. It seems to me that clearing it out would be a beneficial move, but more importantly it would be maintaining transparency of what Adox's plans are, so not giving potential buyers this important info is not really a positive mark on their reputation. And there is dedicated developer which I would not stock on for use with other films anyways, but specifically for what it was designed for.

I really wanted to try it out, but with it being dead beat I don't think I will.

Are you willing to make positives out of it?

Deleted member 88956 · Nov 15, 2020

Alessandro Serrao said:
Are you willing to make positives out of it?

Not really, but if if it were in production then eventually I would likely do it too.

Lachlan Young · Nov 15, 2020

Silvermax was conceived initially to fill the gap left by the last frozen stock of Scala 200x starting to get too foggy to make good reversals - and by using up the remaining stocks of old Agfa component materials at Inoviscoat, costs were probably lower than they might have otherwise been. How long the coated batch of Silvermax/ Scala 160 would last was not known at the time, but has clearly started to run out faster than anticipated (the opposite of what happened to 200x, which went foggy before it ran out). The Silvermax developer was a marketing tool (as most developers are to one extent or another) and will work fine on many other films. If you want to try it, buy some and use it.

DeletedAcct1 · Nov 15, 2020

Witold said:
Not really, but if if it were in production then eventually I would likely do it too.

If you are going to develop as negative I don't see why you shouldn't stick with long term reliability of Ilford, for example. Just speculating.
If you're going to use it as a slide, I'd use the Foma 100R instead: the only true b&w film tailor-made to be reversed. There's no better than that imho.
As you, I'm not going to commit my work to films that I woudn't find at any moment in the future.

Deleted member 88956 · Nov 15, 2020

Alessandro Serrao said:
If you are going to develop as negative I don't see why you shouldn't stick with long term reliability of Ilford, for example. Just speculating.
If you're going to use it as a slide, I'd use the Foma 100R instead: the only true b&w film tailor-made to be reversed. There's no better than that imho.
As you, I'm not going to commit my work to films that I woudn't find at any moment in the future.

All that aside I'm now only a bit ticked off that such an important information is not placed square under a product. I might still get some Silvermax as I am somewhat intrigued by it, but clearly not what I wanted to do originally. Given it is dead meat though, there should be clear knowledge how much stock is left, how old it is etc. Adox surely has an idea on that and how it comes off the shelves for end of sale projections.

Deleted member 88956 · Nov 15, 2020

Lachlan Young said:
Silvermax was conceived initially to fill the gap left by the last frozen stock of Scala 200x starting to get too foggy to make good reversals - and by using up the remaining stocks of old Agfa component materials at Inoviscoat, costs were probably lower than they might have otherwise been. How long the coated batch of Silvermax/ Scala 160 would last was not known at the time, but has clearly started to run out faster than anticipated (the opposite of what happened to 200x, which went foggy before it ran out). The Silvermax developer was a marketing tool (as most developers are to one extent or another) and will work fine on many other films. If you want to try it, buy some and use it.

I'm somewhat trusting dedicated developers especially when emulsion is indeed different from most others. Some users claim clear benefits with Silvermax kit. I may get some rolls just to claim I tried it too before it hits Adox's museum.

DeletedAcct1 · Nov 15, 2020

Witold said:
I'm somewhat trusting dedicated developers especially when emulsion is indeed different from most others. Some users claim clear benefits with Silvermax kit. I may get some rolls just to claim I tried it too before it hits Adox's museum.

There's not much difference at all according to this https://pixeldeplata.es/ilford-fp4-plus-y-adox-silvermax/

Lachlan Young · Nov 15, 2020

Witold said:
I'm somewhat trusting dedicated developers especially when emulsion is indeed different from most others. Some users claim clear benefits with Silvermax kit. I may get some rolls just to claim I tried it too before it hits Adox's museum.

It's essentially the last Agfa version of Agfapan 100 with extra silver added for improved reversal characteristics & coated on a clear TAC base. Silvermax developer uses a high solvency (KSCN) approach to supposedly get a longer scale out of the film.

DeletedAcct1 · Nov 15, 2020

Lachlan Young said:
It's essentially the last Agfa version of Agfapan 100 with extra silver added for improved reversal characteristics & coated on a clear TAC base. Silvermax developer uses a high solvency (KSCN) approach to supposedly get a longer scale out of the film.

The key word is supposedly

Lachlan Young · Nov 15, 2020

Alessandro Serrao said:
The key word is supposedly

I'd agree - I've only ever used Silvermax (when developed as a neg) with ID-11 and Rodinal - and both work just fine.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Nov 16, 2020

Alessandro Serrao said:
The key word is supposedly

Just curious to know why you are skeptical about Adox's claim. Is it the case that Silvermax developer offers no discernible advantage over well-known developers on Silvermax film?

DeletedAcct1 · Nov 16, 2020

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Just curious to know why you are skeptical about Adox's claim. Is it the case that Silvermax developer offers no discernible advantage over well-known developers on Silvermax film?

Please have a look at the link I've provided above

Deleted member 88956 · Nov 16, 2020

Alessandro Serrao said:
Please have a look at the link I've provided above

I have no idea what is hidden under that link, but I have seen a number of web opinions where people were quite satisfied with SIlvermax dedicated combination with improvements over standard developers, and I have little reason not to try it myself, if I indeed make that decision based on film being dead meat.

Deleted member 88956 · Nov 16, 2020

Just had a message from Fotoimpex regarding my add-on Silvermax order, so I asked about the film. Once I get a response I'll share it here, not expecting sudden change of heart at Adox by announcing "back in production" type of deal. If anything it would be a re-confirmation of what they had already stated.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Nov 16, 2020

Alessandro Serrao said:
Please have a look at the link I've provided above

Ok, I did that. Thanks.

Adox website says this about Silvermax film/developer combination: "The dedicated Silvermax developer is formulated to “fit perfectly” and tweak the dynamics of the film beyond a regular level. So when using Silvermax developer you get something extra which you might not see with a conventional developer."

Now, what is this extra that Adox is talking about? What kind of scenes actually are best suited for the combination to give this something extra? The website gives no details. Why doesn't Adox give all the details and illustrative examples without users having to either speculate or experiment themselves to figure out? Attn: @Team ADOX

Deleted member 88956 · Nov 16, 2020

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Ok, I did that. Thanks.

Adox website says this about Silvermax film/developer combination: "The dedicated Silvermax developer is formulated to “fit perfectly” and tweak the dynamics of the film beyond a regular level. So when using Silvermax developer you get something extra which you might not see with a conventional developer."

Now, what is this extra that Adox is talking about? What kind of scenes actually are best suited for the combination to give this something extra? The website gives no details. Why doesn't Adox give all the details and illustrative examples without users having to either speculate or experiment themselves? Attn: @Team ADOX

I don't there has been a single example in film production where any claims related to dedicated processing were also shown in examples by any manufacturer.

What Adox means is that SIlvermax being capable of wider tonal range may show those benefits when processed in Silvermax concoction vs. any other standard developer. I am not arguing for or against it. Truth is though that processed film when scanned may not even show what a naked eye in a print may easily see, reason why I am rather skeptical of any web based "proofs" as there is always someone who just wants to prove somebody else wrong. There is also simply no way to tell film was processed in different developers which in itself may have affected results.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Nov 16, 2020

Witold said:
I don't there has been a single example in film production where any claims related to dedicated processing were also shown in examples by any manufacturer.

What Adox means is that SIlvermax being capable of wider tonal range may show those benefits when processed in Silvermax concoction vs. any other standard developer. I am not arguing for or against it. Truth is though that processed film when scanned may not even show what a naked eye in a print may easily see, reason why I am rather skeptical of any web based "proofs" as there is always someone who just wants to prove somebody else wrong. There is also simply no way to tell film was processed in different developers which in itself may have affected results.

It is in Adox's interest to give more details on what extra the dedicated developer gives and under what circumstances. Otherwise users will do precisely what you are wary of - their own ill-informed testing and come up with conclusions that potentially harm Adox's interests.

Deleted member 88956 · Nov 16, 2020

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
It is in Adox's interest to give more details on what extra the dedicated developer gives and under what circumstances. Otherwise users will do precisely what you are wary of - their own ill-informed testing and come up with conclusions that potentially harm Adox's interests.

Yes, we could argue that way, but it appears to be a standard approach. Frankly I don't see any point in making a low volume product with probably not much profit just to be cute on potential benefits. At this point I remain idle on the whole SIlvermax idea anyways.

Adox is clearly not all that open about it, but here is actual Adox "news" on Silvermax. So from this there may be another positive B&W film but not with components used in Silvermax production, meaning different product altogether. I don't really read it as a 100% end of Silvermax, but I don't know when that was written referencing film prices that are already above 10EUR per roll in some cases and Silvermax goes for almost 7 now.

Deleted member 88956 · Nov 16, 2020

Just to close this story on Silvermax. Final confirmation, as just received from Fotoimpex, on what those who followed have always been true: Silvermax is no longer for reasons given. So basically if anyone wants to have it, this is the time to stock up. Once gone it is gone.

Film is not dead. Silvermax is.

DeletedAcct1 · Nov 16, 2020

Witold said:
I don't there has been a single example in film production where any claims related to dedicated processing were also shown in examples by any manufacturer.

What Adox means is that SIlvermax being capable of wider tonal range may show those benefits when processed in Silvermax concoction vs. any other standard developer. I am not arguing for or against it. Truth is though that processed film when scanned may not even show what a naked eye in a print may easily see, reason why I am rather skeptical of any web based "proofs" as there is always someone who just wants to prove somebody else wrong. There is also simply no way to tell film was processed in different developers which in itself may have affected results.

See, I tend to trust more the third part web site that has no interest of selling a film rather that trusting the producer, for evident reasons.

DeletedAcct1 · Nov 16, 2020

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
It is in Adox's interest to give more details on what extra the dedicated developer gives and under what circumstances. Otherwise users will do precisely what you are wary of - their own ill-informed testing and come up with conclusions that potentially harm Adox's interests.

ill informed testing?
You probably didn't have a look at this https://pixeldeplata.es/ilford-fp4-plus-y-adox-silvermax/
Silvermax was developed in silvermax developer so...

Lachlan Young · Nov 16, 2020

Adox have been totally open about Silvermax being a one-time batch from the start. Having a public conniption about this isn't going to change things. I'd imagine that a variation on CHS II is the most likely future replacement - though if you have deep enough pockets, I imagine that Inoviscoat will happily make a similar film to Scala 160/ 200x - though as Adox state, the selling price would likely have to be in the 10 EUR + range per roll.

ADOX SIlvermax long term projections

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