Adox MCP 312...

2F/2F · May 1, 2010

...is a VERY GOOD (GREAT???), and VERY reasonably-priced paper. I did my first proofs on it last night, and I am very impressed. I think I will be switching to this for my main RC paper, once I finish off these 65 proofs and make some proof prints, just do make sure it will do the job for both. MCP 312 is under 50 U.S. cents per sheet of 8x10, and I like the tonality and the surface better than Ilford MGIV RC, which is nearly $20 more per box of 100 8x10 sheets. Sorry Ilford. I love you, but your paper is not as good as this, and has got too expensive for me over the past few years.

One note for all of us: Freestyle lists the surface as semi-matte/pearl. Adox lists the surface as matt. I can see why Freestyle chose to describe it as pearl in their catalog. It is definitely not matte...for which I am glad, since I like my RC prints on a semi-matte surface.

Like MCC 110, is this another old Agfa emulsion that Adox has reissued?

Long live Adox! Let us hope that they can stay afloat in this market.

Thomas Bertilsson · May 1, 2010

Adox MCP 312 is the same formula as the old Agfa MCP 312. When I used RC paper for my printing, it was definitely my go-to paper before it got discontinued. Great blacks, and a wonderful long tonal scale all the way up to crisp highlights.

Tom Kershaw · May 1, 2010

To point that in the UK MGIV is significantly less expensive than MCP.

Tom

2F/2F · May 1, 2010

Tom Kershaw said:
To point that in the UK MGIV is significantly less expensive than MCP.

Tom

Good to know.Thanks. My comments were based on Freestyle's prices. I work a couple of blocks from the retail location, so it is pretty much my only source for most things.

How do the prices compare specifically in the UK? At Freestyle, for 100-sheet boxes of 8x10, it is $47 (approx. £30) for the MCP 312, $64 (approx. £42) for the MGIV RC, and $59 (approx. £38) for the MGIV RC that has been repackaged by Freestyle. Ilford prices here in the U.S. have gone up huge amounts in the past five years. I don't use their paper any more, and will not be using their chemicals either once I finish this batch of Ilfotec HC. As for film, with Arista Premium here, the only 35mm Ilford products I use now are Delta 3200 (though I do use a ton of it), and occasionally SFX.

pentaxuser · May 1, 2010

Just checked AgPhotographic which stocks both and has competitive prices: Ilford MGIV £28.95 Adox MCP £37.95 £9 per box difference is quite a lot. In 5x7 the difference is £4 in favour of Ilford and percentage wise is only 25% more expensive as opposed to 8x10 where Adox is 31% more expensive in relative terms.

pentaxuser

Tom Kershaw · May 1, 2010

2F/2F said:
As for film, with Arista Premium here, the only 35mm Ilford products I use now are Delta 3200 (though I do use a ton of it), and occasionally SFX.

Kodak film in 35mm, 120, and 4x5 is now approximately the same price as ILFORD, whereas a couple of years ago ILFORD film was about a 1/3rd less expensive. 8x10" ILFORD film is still cheaper than Kodak though.

e.g. Morco prices (UK supplier):

Kodak T-Max 100 - 10sh 8x10" - 41.70 GBP ex VAT (4.17 GBP per sheet)

ILFORD Delta 100 - 25sh 8x10" - 83.40 GBP ex VAT (3.34 GBP per sheet)

Tom

ozphoto · May 2, 2010

I'm envious of both UK and US members - at least you have access to it.
I'd need to add the cost of postage onto all your prices - and that isn't cheap!

Guess I'll just have to hold off until I can find somebody heading that way who is happy to bring back a couple of boxes; on 2nd thoughts, maybe I should make that cartons.

jeroldharter · May 2, 2010

I suspect that the real differences in price have nothing to do with economics, quality, or actual manufacturing costs and only to do with government interference with free trade.

I tried the Adox paper in fiber and it is very good. I still prefer Kentmere (now made by Ilford) which is relatively inexpensive and readily available in the US.

ozphoto · May 2, 2010

In AU Agfa products were *always* more expensive than their competitors.
I learned to live with it because I loved the quality and results I got from them.

Now though, without an importer, that cost is really outrageous, and as much as I love the test pack I was given, the cost is just too prohibitive to be viable right now.

With any luck, by the time I move back, maybe (fingers crossed) somebody will have put their hand up to import and I'll really be able to motor through some great images I've been exposing here in BKK and around Asia.

kristopher_lawrence · May 2, 2010

I am going trough my last sheets of original AGFA product.

I will stock up on the Adox (or Arista Private Reserve) soon. This paper is so good that I wonder sometimes why I still print on fiber base...

On a more serious note, if it was available with a thicker base, that would be amazing. As many, if not all, RC papers, the base is thin and handling can damage prints very easely, expecially large ones.

I will also give a try to MCC, I guess that the emulsion must be quite close in term of tonality, and probably even better.

Long live Adox for bringing back this absolutely wonderfull paper.

K

swittmann · May 2, 2010

Adox MCP 312 is a great paper for sure. Actually, it is the first RC paper that I really like - and that I use for prints, not only for contact sheets ;-) I never was a fan of the Ilford MGIV paper, to be honest. MCP 312 has a wonderful tonal range from whitest white to darkest black and with beautiful midtones. Another thing that I like is that it is not too fast - it gives me enough time for dodging and burning.

The semi-matte surface is just beautiful.

The base paper comes from Schoeller. I didn't find it too thin, but then again I only use 24 * 30 cm.

Like MCC 110, is this another old Agfa emulsion that Adox has reissued?

AFAIK yes. The base is different, but the emulsion should be the same. Mirko Böddecker from ADOX Fotoimpex is a member/partner of this forum. Maybe he reads this post and can supply a more precise answer.

MCP is cheaper than Ilford's MGIV at fotoimpex.de (http://www.fotoimpex.de/catalogus/files/page57-1059-full.html ).

Sandra

pmu · Dec 25, 2010

How does Adox MCP semi-matte handle retouching? What do you retouch it with?

piu58 · Dec 27, 2010

pmu said:
How does Adox MCP semi-matte handle retouching? What do you retouch it with?

I retouched it with spotone and a 00000-brush. Retouching does not differ much from other RC papers, i.e. baryt is easier to spot.

cmo · Dec 27, 2010

I am shopping for paper these days and find one thing interesting: you can purchase a box with 100 sheets of top quality, popular 8x10" papers for 34 Euros or for more than 70 Euros even if you just look into prices on some well-known mailorder sites.

swittmann · Jun 12, 2011

I hope that it is ok if I bring up this somewhat older thread.

Yesterday evening, I was printing my postcards for the postcard exchange on MCP. For comparison, I printed the same negative on MGIV RC. The developer was LPD 1:4. My impression was that MGIV turned out a bit warmer, with a bit less contrast.
I have to add that my Adox paper is fresh, while my Ilford paper is several years old.

Now I would like to ask if MGIV RC is a tad warmer than MCP in general or if it was just because of my Ilford paper being older than my Adox?

swittmann · Jun 14, 2011

*gentle reminder*

nworth · Jun 14, 2011

I've been using MCP312 for a while now, and it is a very interesting paper. It has a very large contrast range, particularly at the low end. It is quite easy to judge when wet, but it has an interested dry down effect - it gets warmer. When wet, this paper is a neutral black. In a cold tone developer, it warms slightly on drying but remains mostly neutral. In a warm tone developer it warms quite noticeably on drying and keeps getting subtly warmer for a couple of days. The final tone is quite pleasant and seems to be predictable.

mr.datsun · Jun 14, 2011

Started with MCP 312 gloss and pearl and so far in my limited (recent) experience I much prefer them to the MGIV I have just been trying.

As for the semi-matte I think they'd be better clearly selling it as 'pearl'. I'd prefer a proper semi-matte.

Talking Agfa, I wish we could get Brovira again. I loved that paper.

ath · Jun 14, 2011

swittmann said:
Now I would like to ask if MGIV RC is a tad warmer than MCP in general or if it was just because of my Ilford paper being older than my Adox?

Sandra,

I use(d) MGIV (as Tetenal Vario Comfort) and the original Agfa MCP in Tetenal Variospeed W (a neutral to slightly warm developer).
At a close look the MGV has a warmer base but colder (more blueish) blacks. The MCP has a slightly colder base but warmer blacks.
I would sum it up to:
MGV has a warmer base but MCP has the warmer emulsion.
I experienced this with fresh and older paper.

I have no experience with ADOX MCP but I read that the base has changed.

swittmann · Jun 14, 2011

Andreas, thank you for your response. One interesting thing is that I found the Ilford to be warmer, while my husband said the Adox appeared warmer to him...

I have no experience with ADOX MCP but I read that the base has changed.

I have a box of Agfa MCP 310 and one of the Adox MCP 310. The base of the Adox is whiter, but not to a large extent. I have never tried MCC (neither Agfa nor Adox), maybe the difference between them is more visible, I don't know.

wogster · Jun 14, 2011

ozphoto said:
I'm envious of both UK and US members - at least you have access to it.
I'd need to add the cost of postage onto all your prices - and that isn't cheap!

Guess I'll just have to hold off until I can find somebody heading that way who is happy to bring back a couple of boxes; on 2nd thoughts, maybe I should make that cartons.

Remember with postage, the first unit, whether it's pounds or kilos costs the most, so if you order a box at a time, it gets really expensive, really fast, but there are often price breakpoints. For example 1kg costs 30, but each additional kg costs 1 it makes sense then to order 4-5 boxes at a time. This also gives you the advantage of getting 4-5 different boxes of different papers, sent to you. Find another darkroom worker who also wants paper, and you can order even more. Paper is quite slow, if you freeze it, it should be fine well past the expiry date.

Pat Erson · Jul 3, 2011

I tried it for contact-sheet making and imho it's nowhere near as good as the Ilford/Tetenal equivalents. It's a bit dull and gray with no real deep blacks.
Imho again it's the kind of paper that should be sold as "budget" paper for beginners/schools etc.

I might give it another try with the glossy version but I have not been impressed enough to switch. Plus at 38 Euros [34 GBP] a box of 50 sheets in 24 x 30 cm format this paper is more expensive than Ilford or Tetenal.

2F/2F · Jul 3, 2011

Pat Erson said:
I tried it for contact-sheet making and imho it's nowhere near as good as the Ilford/Tetenal equivalents. It's a bit dull and gray with no real deep blacks.
Imho again it's the kind of paper that should be sold as "budget" paper for beginners/schools etc.

I might give it another try with the glossy version but I have not been impressed enough to switch. Plus at 38 Euros [34 GBP] a box of 50 sheets in 24 x 30 cm format this paper is more expensive than Ilford or Tetenal.

If you are getting no "real deep blacks," then something is amiss. The blacks of this paper are outstanding. Not only that, but any glossy or semi-matte paper out there can give you "real deep blacks" unless something is wrong. It wouldn't be a photo paper if it couldn't. The paper could be bad, the developer could be bad, but more than likely, the negatives and/or the printing are bad.

ath · Jul 3, 2011

Pat Erson said:
I tried it for contact-sheet making and imho it's nowhere near as good as the Ilford/Tetenal equivalents. It's a bit dull and gray with no real deep blacks.
Imho again it's the kind of paper that should be sold as "budget" paper for beginners/schools etc.

I might give it another try with the glossy version but I have not been impressed enough to switch. Plus at 38 Euros [34 GBP] a box of 50 sheets in 24 x 30 cm format this paper is more expensive than Ilford or Tetenal.

Personally I never liked the 312 surface of MCP. The glossy however is my all time favourite. I really like the matte finish of the Kentmere VC Select, wish the MCP came with that surface...

On a side note - Tetenal rebrands. Depending on time and specific paper these were MCP (Tetenal Vario Ultra, Tetenal Work Vario), MG4 (Tetenal Vario Comfort) or Kentmere VC select (current Tetenal Vario).

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Jul 3, 2011

2F/2F,

I looked to the gallery and found 3 adox paper examples. They were not very impressive but if you put few of your best prints to the gallery , it would be great to see. Its difficult to understand written on papers with personal tastes.

Adox MCP 312...

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