ADOX MCC

[Arthurwg]

Simple question: Will we ever see ADOX MCC paper again, and if we do, will it be the same?

 

[Peter Schrager]

don't count on it...paper gives low ROI for the company
you can buy the forte emulsion from ADOX and coat it yourself!...I'm going to try it at some point

 

[koraks]

Ask @ADOX Fotoimpex

As I understand (from hearsay) the argument has been that in order for MCC to be feasible, it'd have to retail at a price that the market is not willing to bear. I can only guess at what kind of level this would be, but probably north of Ilford MGWT. If this is the case, I suspect that argument is pretty solid and it would take a looooong time for a batch of MCC to sell out.
In the final days of its production (or in fact, just after production had ended), I bought it from time to time because it was pretty much always on clearance sale. Apparently the retailer I bought it from had much difficulty getting rid of it.

Keep in mind that paper is a niche product. Film is a decent seller, but given how preciously few people actually darkroom print their negatives, paper just isn't a very attractive proposition.

MCC is/was a gorgeous product, that's for sure.

you can buy the forte emulsion from ADOX and coat it yourself!

I don't think that compares to MCC in several ways, really. It's also a nice option to have, but very different.

 

[Joerg Bergs]

MCC is/was a gorgeous product, that's for sure.

MCC is/was a gorgeous product, that's for sure. It's unfortunate that batch-to-batch inconsistencies can affect the results so significantly. The reduction of silver content and adjustments like adding more phenidone often compromise the original quality. It's no surprise that the first batch stood out—sometimes those initial formulations capture something that later revisions can't replicate. Lith printing success with the first batch have been an incredible experience! But then the quality dropped from batch to batch, with even more problems.

 

[otto.f]

Interesting. I wouldn’t mind trying it out but haven’t seen it offered by US vendors.

Who makes the Rollei paper - Ilford, Foma? Is it a formulation by Rollei or a repackaging of an existing paper?

I was (am) a big fan of the Adox paper and have a really large stash of it that I am planning to start using in 2025. Yes, it can be frustrating from batch-to-batch.

macodirect EN

www.macodirect.de

I use this with ~ the same settings as Agfa MCC.

In Germany, Hans O. Mahn GmbH & Co. KG brings out the Rollei products through the website Macodirect which also sells Adox products. The website Fotoimpex seems closely related to - and sells all - Adox products and it does not sell Rollei papers .

 

[koraks]

The website Fotoimpex seems closely related to

FotoImpex = ADOX, basically. Impex is the retail branch, Adox is the manufacturer that has spun out of the retail business in 2009. AFAIK Mirko is still the director of both.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Ask @ADOX Fotoimpex

As I understand (from hearsay) the argument has been that in order for MCC to be feasible, it'd have to retail at a price that the market is not willing to bear. I can only guess at what kind of level this would be, but probably north of Ilford MGWT. If this is the case, I suspect that argument is pretty solid and it would take a looooong time for a batch of MCC to sell out.
In the final days of its production (or in fact, just after production had ended), I bought it from time to time because it was pretty much always on clearance sale. Apparently the retailer I bought it from had much difficulty getting rid of it.

Keep in mind that paper is a niche product. Film is a decent seller, but given how preciously few people actually darkroom print their negatives, paper just isn't a very attractive proposition.

MCC is/was a gorgeous product, that's for sure.


I don't think that compares to MCC in several ways, really. It's also a nice option to have, but very different.

Its not about the quantities but about the price per sqm. Our production is small and a bit more expensive than Harmans who have almost 3 times the coating width and 5 times the kettle capacity. The other thing bothering us is the changing quality of the last batches which were produced by a contracting manufacturer. It went downhill when one crucial component still QC´ed by Agfa was depleted. Since then we are investing in incoming raw material R&D. This has a focus on photochemistry though because with this we pay our bills but we also did not forgett about photopaper. In fact we made a few MCC emulsions last year for training purposes and we will make some this year.

 

[koraks]

Thanks so much for the update; this is actually quite hopeful news!

In fact we made a few MCC emulsions last year for training purposes and we will make some this year.

The batches you intend to produce in 2025, are those actually intended for release to the market?

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Thanks so much for the update; this is actually quite hopeful news!


The batches you intend to produce in 2025, are those actually intended for release to the market?

No, they went into R&D only. Making a production is whole different story and can only be done after all problems are solved.

 

[cjbecker]

Its not about the quantities but about the price per sqm. Our production is small and a bit more expensive than Harmans who have almost 3 times the coating width and 5 times the kettle capacity. The other thing bothering us is the changing quality of the last batches which were produced by a contracting manufacturer. It went downhill when one crucial component still QC´ed by Agfa was depleted. Since then we are investing in incoming raw material R&D. This has a focus on photochemistry though because with this we pay our bills but we also did not forgett about photopaper. In fact we made a few MCC emulsions last year for training purposes and we will make some this year.

I just bought some neutol eco developer, going to compare it too my other developers, hoping to switch over too it full time. So I’m supporting the return of mcc. Ive never used mcc, but Agfa was my first love for chemicals, so it just seams right

 

[otto.f]

I doubt whether Adox can compete with Rollei Vintage which came out since Adox is trying a comeback of Agfa MCC. I can hardly find any difference between my old prints with Agfa MCC and those with recent Rollei Vintage.

Schwarzweiss Barytpapier variable Gradation

www.macodirect.de

 

[miha]

I doubt whether Adox can compete with Rollei Vintage which came out since Adox is trying a comeback of Agfa MCC. I can hardly find any difference between my old prints with Agfa MCC and those with recent Rollei Vintage.

Schwarzweiss Barytpapier variable Gradation

www.macodirect.de

They can certainly compete, since none of the Rollei paper is available for purchase.

On a more serious note, we all know it's Fomabrom Variant in the Rollei boxes. And while it's excellent paper in its own right, Adox MMC is / was the better paper.

 

[K-G]

On a more serious note, we all know it's Fomabrom Variant in the Rollei boxes. And while it's excellent paper in its own right, Adox MMC is / was the better paper.

Yes , the MCC was definitely the best in that comparison. The only paper that can match the MCC today is Ilford Multigrade Classic, Warmtone and Cooltone are also excelent, but give a slightly different nuance. The Multigrade Classic is excellent in it self, but I still prefer the slightly better maximum black and the wonderful nuance of the MCC. Also Berger Variable NB and CB were brilliant papers, but I have not seen any trace of them for over a year. Bring back ADOX MCC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Karl-Gustaf

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I for one, would love to have this paper again. Before it was released, I got a test batch to play around with. Lovely paper, that responds well to toning.

 

[Peter Schrager]

Strangely enough the one batch i got was badly fogged...not wonderful at all! So cant attest to its wonderful quality

 

[GregY]

I'd trade all that MCC to have Forte back.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I'd trade all that MCC to have Forte back.

I would have to agree with you on that one! Polygrade V was my favourite paper. I still have a 16x20 and 8x10 box in the freezer. I'll be bringing them out soon, to see how badly fogged they have become, and if a little benzo will save them...

 

[Guillaume Zuili]

Same.. If Forte could be back...!

 

[DREW WILEY]

Final image color (including toning options) is important for me. I never found a way to get MCC beyond its native purplish-sepia bias. When it comes to Ilford, between MGWT and Cooltone, I have most of the bases covered. The problem right now is the tremendous price hike, with added tariffs still to come.

There are all kinds of papers I wish were still around : Polygrade V, the ole graded classics like Seagull G, Brilliant Bromide, Portriga, etc. What some of those would cost today might be frightening. "Neutral" papers which could swing either warm or cold included Harman Fineprint and Bergger N - too bad those are unavailable now. I find Ilford MG Classic a bit anemic by comparison; and it never yielded satisfactory cool tones for me.

 

[GregY]

I would have to agree with you on that one! Polygrade V was my favourite paper. I still have a 16x20 and 8x10 box in the freezer. I'll be bringing them out soon, to see how badly fogged they have become, and if a little benzo will save them...

I had a box given to me...but it had not been refrigerated....a full unopened box....completely fogged. I printed a lot on Polygrade Warmtone FB....& loved the graded Fortezo...