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ADOX ColorMission RA-4 paper has landed

koraks

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I haven't tried it yet, but the boxes look fantastic, that's for sure!

I expect this paper to be more subtle & subdued than the DPII I usually use, which means it'll be a great choice for images that require a more muted palette. It would be very interesting to pair this with a low-saturated film like ADOX Color Mission (which hopefully can be revived), Orwo NC500 or the film I use the most in 35mm - Kodak Vision3 250D. But I also have good hopes of using this paper for punchy Ektar 100 or Portra 160 negatives that need the edge taken off a little.
 
What is it that leads you to your conclusions - something that Adox has said or written about with respect of its ingredients, examples you've seen etc

I ask out of genuine curiosity and as a complete ignoramus. I didn't even know Adox was working on RA4 paper

Thanks

pentaxuser
 
Well, Adox said this is Fuji Crystal Archive, Fuji’s lowest line of their RA-4 papers. Subdued tones, nonexistent blacks and mottling (some people are really allergic to this, I’m not one of them) is the name of the game.

My reasoning for using this paper was the same as koraks’ except that I never came across a negative (Color Mission and Ektar included or even basically unprintable Phoenix) that would print better on CA than DP2 or Maxima or Endura.
 
brbo said:
Well, Adox said this is Fuji Crystal Archive, Fuji’s lowest line of their RA-4 papers. Subdued tones, nonexistent blacks and mottling (some people are really allergic to this, I’m not one of them) is the name of the game.
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I'd have thought that if it is Fuji CA then koraks would have said that in his opening post Does this mean that Fuji supplies its CA to Adox and all it has done is to re-box it and allowed another company to sell re-badged CA as it's own paper?

pentaxuser
 
I have NEVER gotten dull blacks or mottling with CAii cut sheet paper, or necessarily"subdued" tones either - that would be more a characteristic of a muted film instead, or else a chemistry issue. Or maybe there are just a lot of old colorheads out there with geriatric filters. If the color neg itself has a lot of saturation and contrast, then expect that in the print too.

It is a relatively thin paper, and the overall GAMUT accuracy of certain color categories is going to be slightly less than premium Fuji papers, which is the real reason certain hues might not reproduce with optimal "snap". That can be either a pro or a con, depending on how you want a specific image to turn out. In any event, it's a decent convenient paper for RA4 learning purposes, and might be all you need. Anything else will have to be purchased in full rolls and cut down to working sheet sizes.

I've seen three different re-brandings of this paper here in the US, plus the Fuji label itself. Seems to all be the same thing. The only thing different with the Adox offering is a lower price point due to half as many sheets per box in the 16X20 and 20X24 inch sizes.
 
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koraks said:
Here's what @ADOX Fotoimpex say about the product:



I hope to be printing on this paper in the next few weeks, insofar as all the social niceties of the festivities allow.
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Thanks but from what Adox says in your link ít isn't clear what manufacturer this paper comes from but it would seem likely that it is Fuji. So are your comments based on your experience of Fuji CA?

How does 55 euros for Adox 100 sheet box of 8x10 compare to the retail price of Fuji's CA paper?

pentaxuser
 
pentaxuser said:
So are your comments based on your experience of Fuji CA?
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My comments about print quality are. My comments on the provenance of the Adox paper are not based on a subjective evaluation of the paper in the boxes; in fact, I've not opened any of the boxes yet.

pentaxuser said:
How does 55 euros for Adox 100 sheet box of 8x10 compare to the retail price of Fuji's CA paper?
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With the ADOX paper you obviously pay a premium for the convenience of being able to purchase actual 8x10" sheets. Here in mainland Europe Fuji only sells paper in rolls; for 8x10" you'd be looking at 8" or 10" rolls with the equivalent of 400-500 8x10" sheets on them, each, and they come two to a box. This means you generally have to commit to a purchase of 800-1000 sheets at a time. With the ADOX option, you can buy a more sensible amount at a time and you don't have to worry about how to turn a 350ft long strip of paper into neat little sheets.
 
@pentaxuser
To put your mind at ease, please refer to this: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/adox-color-paper-ra4.208848/#post-2825568 In the same thread there's also this post, although the identifier "CA" is a little vague since "Crystal Archive" is technically the product family that all these EU-manufactured papers are part of:

However, I interpret the comments by ADOX in the thread I linked to as referring to one of the papers in the 'Sharing' category, and most likely the very first one on the list shown above.
Note also that while some of the papers are identified as 'Digital', all of the papers on this list are optimized primarily for digital exposure, but can at the same time be used for darkroom printing.
 
pentaxuser said:
Thanks but from what Adox says in your link ít isn't clear what manufacturer this paper comes from but it would seem likely that it is Fuji. So are your comments based on your experience of Fuji CA?
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It is clear what the source for this paper is. It's Fuji CA.

pentaxuser said:
How does 55 euros for Adox 100 sheet box of 8x10 compare to the retail price of Fuji's CA paper?
Click to expand...

Fuji CA in a roll is about 3 EUR per m2. So, if you don't need the box, the bag and, most importantly, can cut your own paper, you can cut down the costs by a factor of 3.
 
Once more, it's important to note how Fuji products descriptions vary somewhat between the EU and US. "CA" simply implies Crystal Archive, which happens to cover the entire range of Fuji RA4 papers. Even secondary designations like, "Type II" or "ii" can imply different things, with the common denominator simply being something allegedly improved over its previous version. For example, all of the cut sheet product these days appears to be the same specific product line of CAii (with 3 sheen choices); but it's a completely different product than the thicker pro paper being marketed as Super C Type 2 or "CN" ("New") here in the US, which is available up to 50 inch roll width.

And how "DPii" dovetails into all this is darn hard to figure out on this side of the Pond - the mere listing of it has come and gone; so is it the same thing as "CN" or not ??? Then there's "PD" (Portrait paper, digital exposure optimized). Maxima seems to be a rumored ghost nobody has actually seen.

And the FujiflmUSA website doesn't untangle the question in a satisfactory manner. It shows all kinds CA options, some of which don't seem to have any US distribution at all. The one non-amiguous product line, for small snapshot prints at least, is CA Supreme, which has largely replaced Kodak Radiance in commercial labs with respect to narrow roll usage.
 
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DREW WILEY said:
"Type II" or "ii" can imply different things, with the common denominator simply being something allegedly improved over its previous version
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Some major change must have occurred some 15 years ago or so. The Crystal Archive before that time was qualitatively superior (longer shelf life without fogging, higher dmax, no mottling, heavier base) to the Crystal Archive produced today. I've used them side by side and the difference is massive. The 'old' CA was more like DPII or Maxima today (according to an Fuji engineer I talked to about this and my own experience confirms). I still have a tiny bit of it and it wouldn't surprise me if it still printed fairly well today despite its advanced age. Don't try that with present day Maxima, which will visibly shift colors and start to take on lime whites after a year or two.

DREW WILEY said:
And how "DPii" dovetails into all this is darn hard to figure out on this side of the Pond - the mere listing of it has come and gone; so is it the same thing as "CN" or not ???
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I think I've confirmed this to you after having asked Fuji about it roughly a year ago. You'd have to look it up; it's on the forum somewhere. Things changed in particular when the US plant shut down in Sep. '22 (IIRC); after that, one or two of the product names appear to have been continued while the actual product and its source changed.

DREW WILEY said:
Maxima seems to be a rumored ghost nobody has actually seen.
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It doesn't sell as well as Fuji would have liked, apparently. Its production volumes are likely a shadow of the mainstream papers, so it's not always available in all desired sizes and finishes. However, on this continent, it's fairly commonly available. The problem is that virtually nobody is willing to pay the premium for Maxima especially because its performance in digital exposure is virtually indistinguishable from DPII - which does sell, and is also available in smaller rolls. Ironically, for us darkroom printers the Maxima / DPII difference is more relevant than for its intended market, and of course part of the benefit of Maxima is in the longer lifetime of the processed prints, which is apparently something only a tiny fraction of the market is willing to pay for anyway. I guess that's a big part of the story why you virtually can't get hold of it in the US. I think the US branch just doesn't bother ordering it since it'll just sit in a warehouse until they have to recycle it.

DREW WILEY said:
And the FujiflmUSA website doesn't untangle the question in a satisfactory manner.
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Fuji hasn't succeeded yet (and possibly never will) in streamlining information provision, mostly due to the high degree of autonomy that the branches enjoy. It's common for the people at manufacturing to hear about information that's outdated on e.g. the US website and there's basically not a darn thing they can do about it. For products like Super Type CN and the 'portrait' paper you mention it's virtually impossible for an outsider to figure out which products these actually are. And probably for most Fuji personnel, too.

The TL;DR is and will always remain: buy what's available, evaluate it and if you like it, buy some more. We may have a decade of fun left in this niche, so let's ride the wave as long as it lasts.
 
Thanks. I've done enough CAii cut sheet already to know its benefits and limitations. And I still need to use up the last third of my 30inch wide roll of Fujiflex Supergloss before it starts yellowing. But then, as I've hinted before, I'll probably try a roll of the newer Super C. I've had pretty good results with Super C in the past, especially for large prints, and the new replacement product claims even a little more depth of contrast, plus certain hue gamut improvements. In any event, it's what's on hand in the US in wider sizing, is reasonably priced, and seems to be well accepted so far. But I'm not going to attempt any crystal ball guesstimation about how long RA4 options will still be around. Probably at least as long as me, at least in an active sense.
 
Thanks koraks. In fact it looks as if FotoImpex prices for cut sheets undercuts what most U.K. retailers are charging and there is the added advantage of cut sheets in 5x7 but there remains the issue of the minimum order value required by FotoImpex since the U.K. is now outside of the E.U.

pentaxuser
 
Hmmm ... After a perusal of the best equipped commercial services here in the US, the very mention of Maxima has disappeared from listings, while Fujiflex is clearly the front runner in terms of their premium offering, followed by Super C. But in Germany, I see that White Wall is promoting Maxima. There is no single "best" in such cases; it depends on the specific image and how it will be displayed. Proper presentation of a large true gloss print (Fujiflex) is more expensive and challenging than dealing with RC paper of any sheen. Not every image works well in high gloss - but those that do .. !!!
 
What I'd like to see with Adox at this point is an ability to keep in stock their current offerings of films. It seems to me they rarely ever make enough to sell people before its out of stock and for a long time too. They need to work on upping their production to produce more of what people buy from them.
 
Can someone direct me to photo labs in the EU that use Fuji Maxima paper for printing?
 
Thank you @koraks just what I was after.
 
I don’t print colour, but that is a nice looking box design.
 
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