Adox CMS 20 II: 35mm VS 4x5

loccdor · May 5, 2024

Great! I was just talking about this film with someone when I saw you had put out a video.

Question: is the enlarger lens playing a role here? Is the enlarger lens more of a limiting factor when making the same print size from a smaller negative?

I have a large example I took of this film's resolution on 35mm. It does seem enough for a 20 inch print, to me.

Are the difference on your prints visible to the naked eye, or does it require magnification?

Henning Serger · May 5, 2024

Hello Andrew,

together with photographer friend D. Ventzke ( https://www.high-end-scans.de/ ), who is an enthusiast large format photographer, I did a similar test some years ago:
ADOX CMS 20 II in 35mm format versus
- Fomapan 100 in 4x5"
- Acros 100 in 4x5".

Results:
1) CMS 20 II in 35mm surpassed Fomapan 100 in 4x5" in resolution!
2) To surpass CMS 20 II 35mm in resolution with 4x5" we needed Acros 100: With Acros there was a resolution advantage for 4x5" visible, but it was much less than we expected.
Of course the 35mm photos have also benefitted from the fact that the best lenses for 35mm have significantly higher resolution compared to the best LF lenses.

Best regards,
Henning

Andrew O'Neill · May 5, 2024

loccdor said:
Great! I was just talking about this film with someone when I saw you had put out a video.

Question: is the enlarger lens playing a role here? Is the enlarger lens more of a limiting factor when making the same print size from a smaller negative?

I have a large example I took of this film's resolution on 35mm. It does seem enough for a 20 inch print, to me.

Are the difference on your prints visible to the naked eye, or does it require magnification?

I don't print with an enlarger these days, as I'm mainly into Alt. processes. Hopefully someone else can answer that for you. But... my 4x5 Kallitype contacts looks different than say if I used FP4 or HP5. Way sharper.

Andrew O'Neill · May 5, 2024

Henning Serger said:
Hello Andrew,

together with photographer friend D. Ventzke ( https://www.high-end-scans.de/ ), who is an enthusiast large format photographer, I did a similar test some years ago:
ADOX CMS 20 II in 35mm format versus
- Fomapan 100 in 4x5"
- Acros 100 in 4x5".

Results:
1) CMS 20 II in 35mm surpassed Fomapan 100 in 4x5" in resolution!
2) To surpass CMS 20 II 35mm in resolution with 4x5" we needed Acros 100: With Acros there was a resolution advantage for 4x5" visible, but it was much less than we expected.
Of course the 35mm photos have also benefitted from the fact that the best lenses for 35mm have significantly higher resolution compared to the best LF lenses.

Best regards,
Henning

Thanks, Henning!

Andrew O'Neill · May 7, 2024

Someone commented on my video (on youtube) that "it’s (CMS 20 II) very much not discontinued, they had some issues sourcing raw material but the will go back to making it"

I'm not sure where he's getting his information from...

MsLing · May 7, 2024

Nice video! Maybe I need Apo-Sironar-S or Schneider HM lens to satisfy CMS. It's hard to find lens that can offer high enough resolution.

John Wiegerink · May 8, 2024

MsLing said:
Nice video! Maybe I need Apo-Sironar-S or Schneider HM lens to satisfy CMS. It's hard to find lens that can offer high enough resolution.

Yes, buy two of each and a new set of eyeballs to see if they make a difference. Of course you'll have to enlarge to Aircraft Carrier size to see the difference over what lenses you have now.

I'm going to get a couple of rolls to try in one of my 35mm Contax G1 cameras since it has a fantastic set of lenses, especially the 45mm f2 Plannar. That's where I think you would see the most difference is in the smaller formats.

destroya · May 8, 2024

John Wiegerink said:
Yes, buy two of each and a new set of eyeballs to see if they make a difference. Of course you'll have to enlarge to Aircraft Carrier size to see the difference over what lenses you have now. I'm going to get a couple of rolls to try in one of my 35mm Contax G1 cameras since it has a fantastic set of lenses, especially the 45mm f2 Plannar. That's where I think you would see the most difference is in the smaller formats.

yep, thats the camera and lens (45mm) that I shoot most if not all of my cms20 with and the results are awesome.
john

warden · May 8, 2024

Andrew O'Neill said:

Thanks as always Andrew. Can you share what lens is on your Pentax?

Andrew O'Neill · May 8, 2024

warden said:
Thanks as always Andrew. Can you share what lens is on your Pentax?

Cosina 28-70. It's a favourite lens of mine that I have had for decades.

MsLing · May 8, 2024

John Wiegerink said:
especially the 45mm f2 Plannar.

I agree that 35mm format is suitable for us to run out ability of CMS. I shot 35mm rolls with Canon ''L'' lenses,who offer pretty images. They are nice; but not perfect. Human's desires are endless, the more information they provide, the more details I want. While the resolution of film may out of my scanner's and darkroom system's ability, I still want to press out more and more details, till film's limit. Then, treat it with microscope. Watching tiny silver grains under microscope is fun. Even if that seems stupid, it's fair to say that joy can be meaningless, haha.

John Wiegerink said:
a new set of eyeballs

hhhhhh sounds good. I'd like to get a pair to take my eyeballs' place as soon as it's possible!

Adox CMS 20 II: 35mm VS 4x5

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