ADOX CMS 20 Developer?

[Tom Kershaw]

Are there any open source alternatives to the Adotech developer?

Tom

 

[olehjalmar]

Hi, Apart from the Adox Adotech an SPUR Nanospeed developers, can the film be developed in any of the Ilford or Kodak film developers? If so, how do the results compare to Adox Adotech an SPUR Nanospeed?

Have a look at this thread: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[kram]

I am now developing 2 films at a time (500ml). I just have to wait until I finish my second roll that's all. Pentax user, thanks for the info, I will keep those tanks in mind.

 

[kompressor]

Here is an example from me. CMS 20 in Neofin Doku 6 minutes in Jobo Rotary 20 degree celsius. The enlargment was done on Fomabrom V 111

 

[kompressor]

The picture is Capture in an old Pentax SLR with an 35-50mm

 

[olehjalmar]

Somewhat offtopic, but can someone post some examples of photographs made with this film?

CMS20 in Stoeckler type two bath developer with sulfite reduced t0 40g/l
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3425/3973224502_8569c708b1.jpg

 

[Marc .]

CMS20 in Stoeckler type two bath developer with sulfite reduced t0 40g/l
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3425/3973224502_8569c708b1.jpg

Hello,

Thanks for the picture !
Can you tell the time + temp in the Stoeckler baths, and the film speed ?

Marc

 

[olehjalmar]

Hello,

Thanks for the picture !
Can you tell the time + temp in the Stoeckler baths, and the film speed ?

Marc

I shoot CMS20 at 25 ASA. If I meter the shadows or measure the incoming light it usually works out all right, but the meter in my EOS50 is easily fooled in situations like this where there is lots of white snow if I try to measure reflected light. The resulting negative is somewhat high contast, more like a typical slide, but the highlights are not blocked. The problem, if any, is shadow detail.

Btw., I just re-read my notes, and it seems that this film roll was processed with even less sulfite, 25g/l. So the formula becomes:

Bath A:
Metol 5.0g
Sodium sulfite 25g

Bath B:
Borax 10.0g

I use 3-4 minutes in each bath at 20 C.

The time in bath A will influence your contrast, as it will (slowly) develop film by itself. The time in bath B is not critical, as long as you give it at least 3 minutes.

Reducing the time or sulfite in bath A and substituting a stronger alkali in bath B (metaborate, carbonate or even hydroxide) should reduce the overall contrast, but I have had problems with uneven development that way.

 

[Marc .]

Thanks for the data.

Can you tell why you use only one quarter of the sulfite required in the Stoeckler two bath developer ?

Marc

 

[olehjalmar]

Thanks for the data.

Can you tell why you use only one quarter of the sulfite required in the Stoeckler two bath developer ?

Marc

By reducing the sulfite you get less solvent action, so in theory you should get higher acutance, and more grain, but the grain is no problem with this film. In addition, less sulfite will give you a lower pH, which means development in the A bath will be slower. I think with CMS20 and 100g of sulfite, too much development will take place in A, unless you soak it for a very short time. Maybe just diluting both the metol and the sulfite would work, but then you would have less metol in the emulsion when it starts out in the B bath.

 

[Marc .]

... I think with CMS20 and 100g of sulfite, too much development will take place in A, unless you soak it for a very short time. Maybe just diluting both the metol and the sulfite would work, but then you would have less metol in the emulsion when it starts out in the B bath.

Did you try higher concentration of sulfite with that film, or did you only try at 25g / L ?

Marc

 

[olehjalmar]

Did you try higher concentration of sulfite with that film, or did you only try at 25g / L ?

Marc

I tried 80g and 40g in clip tests, but not with a complete film. The fact that 5g metol / 25g sulfite may be diluted (with the addition of carbonate) to give the classical Beutler developer may be part of the reason I ended up with this ratio, since I was also experimenting with dilute Beutler type developers at the time
If you are going to experiment, I am interested in your results.

 

[Marc .]

I tried 80g and 40g in clip tests, but not with a complete film...

And your results were....

I will experiment on ADOX CMS 20 and Rollei ATP, but not right away because I don't have the films now.
My starting point will be Thornton's 2 bath Stoeckler variant, with which I have already tested many films and developing times.
If you don't know it see here :
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
http://www.barrythornton.com/
Dead Link Removed

I would like to be able to use the least modified Thornton's 2 bath, i.e. modifying only one ingredient of one bath, allowing contrast control and still keeping speed.
I do sensitometry tests since used sensitometers and densitometers are now cheap and easy to find on the "bay.

So, if you can tell more about your previous experiments, that will help !

Marc

 

[olehjalmar]

And your results were....

I will experiment on ADOX CMS 20 and Rollei ATP, but not right away because I don't have the films now.
My starting point will be Thornton's 2 bath Stoeckler variant, with which I have already tested many films and developing times.
If you don't know it see here :
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
http://www.barrythornton.com/
Dead Link Removed

I would like to be able to use the least modified Thornton's 2 bath, i.e. modifying only one ingredient of one bath, allowing contrast control and still keeping speed.
I do sensitometry tests since used sensitometers and densitometers are now cheap and easy to find on the "bay.

So, if you can tell more about your previous experiments, that will help !

Marc

I know and like Thornton's version, but it was formulated specifically to give a bit more acutance and contrast, since he felt that Stoeckler's metol-sulfite-borax combination was too soft working, didn't he? So I basically started out with the original Stoeckler and tried to go in the opposite direction.

With 40g and 80g sulfite, I simply get denser film with the same time in the A bath, but I did not try shorter time in the first bath because I worried about not getting the film completely saturated with developer.

 

[olehjalmar]

Dilute metol low contrast developer: 0.2g metol, 1.25g sulfite, 12.0g sodium carbonate. 12 minutes, agitation the first minute, then every other minute.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30033863@N08/4009051473/sizes/l/
Seems to give a bit more speed.

 

[Lee L]

Dilute metol low contrast developer: 0.2g metol, 1.25g sulfite, 12.0g sodium carbonate. 12 minutes, agitation the first minute, then every other minute.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30033863@N08/4009051473/sizes/l/
Seems to give a bit more speed.

... and water to make 1 liter? 500ml?

Thanks in advance,
Lee

 

[olehjalmar]

Sorry, forgot that. Water to 1 liter.

 

[Marc .]

Hello,

And I suppose it's 20° C ?
Fine picture, how do you see the speed is higher ?

Marc

 

[olehjalmar]

Yes, 20C. I think the effective speed is a bit higher than with the two bath developer, since my scanner consistently shows more density in the shadows for similar scenes and exposure. I do not have a densitometer, so this is just a qualitative statement. Tweaking the two bath developer, for example by substituting sodium carbonate for the borax in the B bath may be worth a try, since that would allow more development before the developer from the A bath diffuses out of the film.

 

[irivlin]

I use Photographers Formulary TD-3.(ie the Bill Troop developer, which can be found in the Photographers Cookbook.)
Use 7mls of "A" and 7 mls of "B" (if the liquid as sold to you by the manufacturers) and make up to 500mls. Develop at 74F (24c) for 25 mins, inverting the tank *gently* 4 times every 3 minutes. Provided you expose for the shadows, you can use 50asa and if you expose for the highlights, use 12asa. This technique will work even in high contrast lighting - but, of course, looks more pictorial with balanced or low contrast lighting. I find Adotec developer very fine grain but hopeless in high contrast light. I have used CMS20 for weddings with a Nikkor 1.4 lens at F2 (approx 1/250-1/1000th. sec) and the results have been fine grained, sharp but with normal tonal gradation.
XTOL, 1+5 , using a total of 1 liter of made up developer (ie, you have to use a 5 reel developing tank, to avoid exhaustion) works well but not quite as well as TD-3.
With the right lens, CMS-20 gives 30"×40" prints that are, effectively, grainless - ie, much finer grain than medium format 100asa film.
The fact that generally, you wouod be using wide apertures and high shutter speeds, means the depth of field is nicely reduced and often a tripod is unnecessary.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Adox CMS image

ASA 20
Adotech developer
40 year old Nikon F
with 40 year old 24mm Nikkor N
2.8 wide open
handheld

I just have to ask, i s this a photo of Trump and cousin It's love child?

 

[Joe Baldwin]

I use Photographers Formulary TD-3.(ie the Bill Troop developer, which can be found in the Photographers Cookbook.)
Use 7mls of "A" and 7 mls of "B" (if the liquid as sold to you by the manufacturers) and make up to 500mls. Develop at 74F (24c) for 25 mins, inverting the tank *gently* 4 times every 3 minutes. Provided you expose for the shadows, you can use 50asa and if you expose for the highlights, use 12asa. This technique will work even in high contrast lighting - but, of course, looks more pictorial with balanced or low contrast lighting. I find Adotec developer very fine grain but hopeless in high contrast light. I have used CMS20 for weddings with a Nikkor 1.4 lens at F2 (approx 1/250-1/1000th. sec) and the results have been fine grained, sharp but with normal tonal gradation.
XTOL, 1+5 , using a total of 1 liter of made up developer (ie, you have to use a 5 reel developing tank, to avoid exhaustion) works well but not quite as well as TD-3.
With the right lens, CMS-20 gives 30"×40" prints that are, effectively, grainless - ie, much finer grain than medium format 100asa film.
The fact that generally, you wouod be using wide apertures and high shutter speeds, means the depth of field is nicely reduced and often a tripod is unnecessary.

Irivlin,

Can you tell me the temp, agitation, and time you use with XTOL? I like XTOL and it would be nice if I could use it for Adox CMS 20 too.

Thanks,

Joe

 

[pentaxuser]

Irivlin,

Can you tell me the temp, agitation, and time you use with XTOL? I like XTOL and it would be nice if I could use it for Adox CMS 20 too.

Thanks,

Joe

Yes, as an Xtol user that would be useful for me as well in the event I ever try CMS 20.

pentaxuser

 

[John51]

Folks I have tried now Rollei ATP-V1.1 Tech Pan in the DC spur developer...gives me 40ASA and I am impressed with it. Just wish the little deveoper bottle would make up 300ml and not just 250ml.

For 35mm, the Rondinax uses 200ml.