Adox chs 25 in Rodinal?

unibonded · Jun 2, 2008

I've had a look around, but can't find much of an answer to this one...

I've been using some Adox CHS 25 in both 120 and 4x5, just wondering what a good starting time is for developing, I'll be using Rodinal, hear it's best at 1+100 or 1+50

Thanks

Tom Hoskinson · Jun 2, 2008

unibonded said:
I've had a look around, but can't find much of an answer to this one...

I've been using some Adox CHS 25 in both 120 and 4x5, just wondering what a good starting time is for developing, I'll be using Rodinal, hear it's best at 1+100 or 1+50

Thanks

Rodinal would not be my choice.

PF TD3, Kodak Technidol, HW Control, POTA are better possibilities IMHO

Aurelien · Jun 2, 2008

Clearly, I have tried Xtol and Efke 25,and it is wonderful. You may try...

Mark Antony · Jun 2, 2008

I have done a mini review of CHS 25
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html
I like it, its a little less contrasty (only a little) than Pan F at suggested dev times, Probably has a little more curl which makes it a little harder to load but has fine grain.
Try a couple of rolls.
I dev it in Rodinal 1:100 for 18 mins
Mark

Lee L · Jun 2, 2008

I believe Tom has mistaken the CHS 25 for CMS 20, which is a film that can be treated similarly to Kodak Technical Pan, ergo his developer suggestions.

With Rodinal 1:100, I'd give a try at 10-12 minutes at 20C with the standard agitation of 10sec/min or 5sec/30sec.

Try the Efke 25 times on digitaltruth.com.

If you look at Freestyle: http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=402&pid=1000002751

The times found there for APH09 developer at 1:40 would be similar to times for Rodinal at 1:50. APH09 is an older version of Rodinal, aka Calbe R09, Fomadon R09, Orwo R09.

Lee

Guillaume Zuili · Jun 2, 2008

As Lee L said. Rodinal works great. I do 9 minutes at 1:50, slow agitation, bullet proof... but lovely.

Lee L · Jun 2, 2008

I'd also suggest giving a try at 1:100 and initial agitation of 1 minute, then semi-stand agitation, 10 seconds every 3-5 minutes, and extending development time on the order of 30%-50% over "regular" agitation times. Worth trying, to see if you like it.

Here's a more specific post of mine in another thread that you might find worth reading, and some examples of Efke 25 with Rodinal. (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Lee

Tom Hoskinson · Jun 2, 2008

Lee L said:
I believe Tom has mistaken the CHS 25 for CMS 20, which is a film that can be treated similarly to Kodak Technical Pan, ergo his developer suggestions.

With Rodinal 1:100, I'd give a try at 10-12 minutes at 20C with the standard agitation of 10sec/min or 5sec/30sec.

Try the Efke 25 times on digitaltruth.com.

If you look at Freestyle: http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=402&pid=1000002751

The times found there for APH09 developer at 1:40 would be similar to times for Rodinal at 1:50. APH09 is an older version of Rodinal, aka Calbe R09, Fomadon R09, Orwo R09.

Lee

You are correct, Lee. I confused CHS 25 with CMS 20, sorry!

Philippe Grunchec · Jun 2, 2008

Efke/Adox films are very fragile when wet! I use Tanol (W. Moersch) which has a tanning (an staining) effect.

manfromh · Jun 2, 2008

I've never had problems with Efke films when wet. Just gotta hold it carefully, as with every other film.

Philippe Grunchec · Jun 2, 2008

Then you've been very lucky!

Tom Hoskinson · Jun 2, 2008

Philippe Grunchec said:
Then you've been very lucky!

Not Luck!

I use a lot of Efke 25 and Efke 100 (rollfilm and 8x10 sheets) and routinely develop it without any emulsion damage. In my experience it is all about learning how to handle the film (wet and dry) without damaging the emulsion.

I develop Efke 25 and Efke 100 in Pyrocat - HD and Pyrocat -MC.
Both are Staining and Tanning developers

Philippe Grunchec · Jun 2, 2008

It is exactly what I mean: Pyrocat or Tanol makes the emulsion less fragile!

ntenny · Jun 2, 2008

Philippe Grunchec said:
It is exactly what I mean: Pyrocat or Tanol makes the emulsion less fragile!

I dunno. I've done a fair amount of Efke 25 (120) and 100 (sheet) in both HC-110 and Caffenol, and I've only had problems when I did something really wrong---the sort of situations that could damage any film. I try to be reasonably careful, but no more so with these films than others.

But people seem to have varied experiences with these films; maybe there are batch differences, or little details in the workflow that make a lot of difference, or something like that.

(As an aside, I think the look of Efke/Adox 25 in Caffenol C is just stunning.)

-NT

Tom Hoskinson · Jun 2, 2008

Philippe Grunchec said:
It is exactly what I mean: Pyrocat or Tanol makes the emulsion less fragile!

The Efke emulsions ARE Somewhat tougher AFTER they they have been developed in a tanning developer.

Tanning development will not heal a scratched or gouged emulsion.

Best to learn how to handle fragile film without damaging it.

Wishy · Jun 2, 2008

Efke is noticable easier to damage than the likes of HP5 / Acros.

And Efke 25 in R09 1:40 or Genuine Rodinal 1:50 is a match made in heaven for 35mm. Should imagine its equally good for larger formats

Tom Hoskinson · Jun 2, 2008

Wishy said:
Efke is noticable easier to damage than the likes of HP5 / Acros.

And Efke 25 in R09 1:40 or Genuine Rodinal 1:50 is a match made in heaven for 35mm. Should imagine its equally good for larger formats

HP-5 and Acros both have factory hardened emulsions.

35mm, 120 rollfilm and LF Efke 25, HP-5 and Acros all produce outstanding results in Pyrocat.

unibonded · Jun 2, 2008

Thanks for all the great information folks. I'll have a look at some of the developer suggestions and see which I can actually get hold of in the UK, we always suffer with choice!

I heard about the problems of delicate emulsions, I was considering using a fixer with hardener, I have some Polymax - would this help/be a good idea?

Tom Hoskinson · Jun 2, 2008

unibonded said:
Thanks for all the great information folks. I'll have a look at some of the developer suggestions and see which I can actually get hold of in the UK, we always suffer with choice!

I heard about the problems of delicate emulsions, I was considering using a fixer with hardener, I have some Polymax - would this help/be a good idea?

PRE-HARDENING the emulsion (before handling the film) will help. Many films are hardened by the manufacturer.

Hardening the emulsion after the emulsion has been damaged will not help.

Use of a NON-HARDENING rapid fixer for film fixing makes archival washing easier.

P C Headland · Jun 3, 2008

I find Efke 25 in Rodinal 1+100 to be a nice combination.

I develop for 17 minutes, which is longer than many people suggest, but I use a reduced agitation scheme - 5 inversions (in 15s) at the start of each minute for 3 minutes, then one inversion every three minutes thereafter. Beautiful results every time.

I've never had any problems with the emulsion either, except when I've been careless with sheet film

Philippe Grunchec · Jun 3, 2008

Tom, the Fotoimpex catalogue says: "Die Gelatine der CHS Filme kann nicht si gehärtet werden wie es bei einem modernen Film der Fall ist. Der Anwender sollte daher die nasse Emulsion mit Vorsicht behandeln".

Raphael · Jun 3, 2008

No problem of scratching Adox/Efke film for me, in several kind of developper, like Ilford DDX, Rodinal, ID-11, etc.. I shot any format from 35mm to 4x5" sheet.
I am careful, but not in excess ;-)
I use rapid fixer (Ilford Hypam) for 3/4 minutes.

The only big problem was some pinholes on the negs, and it was cured using just plain water as stop bath as advised, instead of acid bath.

Regards,

Raphael

Wishy · Jun 3, 2008

unibonded said:
Thanks for all the great information folks. I'll have a look at some of the developer suggestions and see which I can actually get hold of in the UK, we always suffer with choice!

I heard about the problems of delicate emulsions, I was considering using a fixer with hardener, I have some Polymax - would this help/be a good idea?

Retro Photographic have an excellent selection of developers for a single layer emulsion such as Adox / Efke CHS. (Would imagine they will have everything people have suggested here)

I'm uk based and will happily send you some Adox R09 (IE Rodinal)

unibonded · Jun 3, 2008

Thanks Wishy, I as looking at Retro Photographic earlier and noticed their Adox chemicals. Do you find that the Adox R09 ('classic Rodinal') will vary much from modern Agfa Rodinal?

I did my first test film yesterday, 13 mins in Rodinal 1+100 with minimal agitation for 13 mins (as Lee suggested). Results were very thin – I shall try again tomorrow...

Wishy · Jun 3, 2008

I've only ever used R09 to be honest, it was cheaper

I've always used 1:40 in place of 1:50 and the same times, never had any cause for complaint, but without comparing the two side by side having exposed and agregated the same (In the same temperature water), its hard to tell. Everybodys processes are different.

Adox chs 25 in Rodinal?

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