Adox CHM 400... is it still Hp5+ or is it gone for good?

rjas · Jul 7, 2006

So I was under the impression that Adox CHM 400 from Jandc IS hp5+, but I've come across a few posts by Simon R. Galley of Ilford suggesting otherwise. Did Simon mean that Ilford stopped selling their films to Adox for rebranding or did he mean that Adox CHM is now a different film entirely? Is it still Hp5+ and Jandc is just selling what remains of their Adox CHM stock? I ask here because I haven't gotten a response from jandc.

Its hard to keep up with all these changes. I ordered 40 rolls of Adox CHM 400 from Jandc a few days ago under the impression that it was Ilford Hp5+ rebadged. I'm not too fond of most of the 35mm format films from the eastern euro manufacturers and it would suck to get stuck with that much film that I don't want to use. Probably a bit too late to get my money back now...

Roger Hicks · Jul 8, 2006

As far as I am aware Adox coat a lot of their own films (in Croatia -- they are the same company as Efke/Fotokemia).

Dunno if their 400 was ever HP5+ but Ilford's rationale for stopping selling for rebadging was 'Why compete with yourself on price'?

Cheers,

Roger

Ian Grant · Jul 8, 2006

To clarify Roger, Adox do not make film or paper.

The Adox brand name was dropped by EFKE many years ago. The Adox name belonged to Dupont and Efke made Adox films etc under licence.

At some point that agreement ceased and EFKE began selling their films under their own name, dropping the Adox brand name.

The current Adox brand name belongs to Fotoimpex in Germany and J&C in the US, film and paper now sold and packaged under the Adox name comes from a variety of manufacturers, which includes EFKE, Ilford, and Forte.

Ian

abeku · Jul 8, 2006

Hi rjas,
I've also been saying that KB400/CHM400 is HP5+, especially since this has been confirmed by one of the sellers. Then I saw Simons refutation and that has led me to speculate that CHM400 is Ilford Pan 400, a film aimed for the East European market.
However, I don't know if Ilford is still making Ilford Pan 100/400.

Roger Hicks · Jul 8, 2006

Dear Ian,

You may well be correct, but even in this likely event, it's all more confusing than that. At last photokina, the fotoimpex, efke and adox logos -- all in lower case, as here -- were (as far as I recall) all on the same stand and they were not discouraging the idea that they were the same company. But as Frances says (she knows more about the companies than I) the exact relationship is far from clear.

Ilford has certainly stated categorically to me that they have dropped 'third party' manufacture but this was phrased in such a way that it might have applied only to those labels we were discussing, i.e. I have not asked about Adox.

Cheers,

Roger

jim appleyard · Jul 8, 2006

Roger Hicks said:
Ilford has certainly stated categorically to me that they have dropped 'third party' manufacture...

Cheers,

Roger

Thanks, Roger. This would certanly explain the vanishing of Adorama's house brand of papers; at least the RC/VC. Rumor has it that Ilford was the maker of these papers.

Cheers, Jim

jandc · Jul 8, 2006

rjas said:
So I was under the impression that Adox CHM 400 from Jandc IS hp5+, but I've come across a few posts by Simon R. Galley of Ilford suggesting otherwise. Did Simon mean that Ilford stopped selling their films to Adox for rebranding or did he mean that Adox CHM is now a different film entirely? Is it still Hp5+ and Jandc is just selling what remains of their Adox CHM stock? I ask here because I haven't gotten a response from jandc.

Its hard to keep up with all these changes. I ordered 40 rolls of Adox CHM 400 from Jandc a few days ago under the impression that it was Ilford Hp5+ rebadged. I'm not too fond of most of the 35mm format films from the eastern euro manufacturers and it would suck to get stuck with that much film that I don't want to use. Probably a bit too late to get my money back now...

It is HP5. We still have some quantities left. However once it's gone it's gone.

Sorry I missed your email.

Petzi · Jul 8, 2006

Fotoimpex is a German company that is related to J and C. They import film and paper from Eastern Europe, so they presented the Efke brand from Croatia at their Photokina booth. At some point, Fotoimpex had decided it would be a good idea to sell the diverse products of Efke, Forte, maybe Foma and some others under a common name, so they revived the old Adox brand. Perhaps they thought they could sell the stuff better. However, it created confusion in the marketplace, because now you don't know what you are going to get. Everybody sells these products under a different name, even within the same country.

Everybody wants to add value to their brand, or make more profit, or both. It makes sense for Ilford not to produce anything for third parties, because that is going to strengthen the brand of the third party, and weaken the Ilford brand, which may have to compete with its own products in the marketplace then.

It would be better for Forte, Foma and Efke if they'd sell their stuff under their own brand name and establish that. That way, customers would not be so confused as to who makes the product that they are buying. But I don't think they are in a position to do that, as long as their main outlets are companies like Fotoimpex or J and C, who are trying to push their own brand names with it.

jandc · Jul 8, 2006

Petzi said:
Fotoimpex is a German company that is related to J and C. They import film and paper from Eastern Europe, so they presented the Efke brand from Croatia at their Photokina booth. At some point, Fotoimpex had decided it would be a good idea to sell the diverse products of Efke, Forte, maybe Foma and some others under a common name, so they revived the old Adox brand. Perhaps they thought they could sell the stuff better. However, it created a hell of a mess, because now you don't know what you are going to get. Everybody sells these products under a different name, even within the same country.

Everybody wants to add value to their brand, or make more profit, or both. It makes sense for Ilford not to produce anything for third parties, because that is going to strengthen the brand of the third party, and weaken the Ilford brand, which may have to compete with its own products in the marketplace then.

It would be better for Forte, Foma and Efke if they'd sell their stuff under their own brand name and establish that. That way, customers would not be so confused as to who makes the product that they are buying. But I don't think they are in a position to do that, as long as their main outlets are companies like Fotoimpex or J and C, who are trying to push their own brand names with it.

Funny how you failed to mention the re-branding of Forte as Bergger films, Efke 400 being HP5 in the past, Forte selling HP5 in the past as Forte 400, Another one of APUG's sponsors with all of their house brands from these same manufacturers. Not to mention all the flavors of Agfa films in the past sold under various house brands. Even in Europe some of the biggest chain stores sell or have sold these brands under their name. It's the way the business works. We didn't invent it and we can't make it go away.

Also funny how you just ignored my post right above yours where I answered the question as to what the film is.

Petzi · Jul 8, 2006

John,

I don't think I failed to mention anything? Of course I think it is also a bad strategy for Forte to sell their product under the Bergger name, but apparently they think it is a good idea. It probably makes sense for them because they can sell a lot of paper to Bergger and Fotoimpex. I didn't mean to single out Fotoipex or you as the sole source of confusion.

Also, why should I have mentioned Ilford as the supplier of one particular Adox product, when you did it one post above? The essence of my post is that it is confusing to have the same product under so many names, and this thread is proof of it.

roteague · Jul 8, 2006

Petzi said:
The essence of my post is that it is confusing to have the same product under so many names, and this thread is proof of it.

There is still a lot of people who recognize the "adox" name, but don't know who "efke" is.

Roger Hicks · Jul 8, 2006

Dear Petzi,

OK, that makes as much sense as anything. Thanks.

Cheers,

Roger

Petzi · Jul 8, 2006

roteague said:
There is still a lot of people who recognize the "adox" name, but don't know who "efke" is.

On occasion, I will ask my grandfather whether he remembers Adox.

Mark Layne · Jul 8, 2006

Funny, not a single mention of Dr Schleussner or DuPont in this thread.

Mark

Ian Grant · Jul 9, 2006

Try reading this thread again Mark

You'll find a mention of Dupont, I'd have added Dr Schleussner, but couldn't remember how to spell his name !

When I first used Adox film each box and instruction sheet said Made under licence from Dupont.

Ian

Mark Layne said:
Funny, not a single mention of Dr Schleussner or DuPont in this thread.

Mark

abeku · Jul 9, 2006

Mark Layne said:
Funny, not a single mention of Dr Schleussner or DuPont in this thread.

Mark

I'm aware of the connection ADOX-DuPont, but I'm not familiar with this Dr Schleussner. Please, tell me more!

Ian Grant · Jul 9, 2006

Dr Schleussner was the emulsion chemist who formulated the Adox thin layer films, that are still manufactured by EFKE today, although the emulsions have had some minor improvements since.

Ian

abeku said:
I'm aware of the connection ADOX-DuPont, but I'm not familiar with this Dr Schleussner. Please, tell me more!

abeku · Jul 9, 2006

Thanks Ian!

rjas · Jul 9, 2006

thanks jandc, thats great. glad I got a decent supply.

Adox CHM 400... is it still Hp5+ or is it gone for good?

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency