Adox Adofix. A rapid fixer?

koraks · Jan 4, 2019

How about sulfite?

Rudeofus · Jan 5, 2019

Sulfite content should be roughly the same across fixers. If added in too low amounts, it will not preserve the Thiosulfate, and if too much is added, fixation speed will be slowed down.

In the end it's all speculation. We won't be able to reverse engineer Adofix Plus from the data posted in the MSDS. Nobody is going to pay for a full analysis of this product, after all the statement "use Adofix 1+7 for paper" pretty much solved the original problem. If someone is willing to shell out money for chemical analysis, then please rather analyze TF-5, since detailed knowledge of its composition would really bring us forward.

markbau · Jun 9, 2019

I've read through all the posts but I'm not clear if you can use this fixer at 1:4 for 60 seconds for paper. BTW, In Australia, we are still only able to buy the non plus version.

Rudeofus · Jun 9, 2019

Different papers have different emulsion composition, not even the halide contents are the same. Therefore you'd have to test for yourself, or post a specific paper type and hope, that someone answers who has done the testing already.

Given that typical Rapid Fixer clears high iodide film in 30-40 seconds, I would think that one minute fixing time for paper is at least realistic.

markbau · Jun 9, 2019

Rudeofus said:
Different papers have different emulsion composition, not even the halide contents are the same. Therefore you'd have to test for yourself, or post a specific paper type and hope, that someone answers who has done the testing already.

Given that typical Rapid Fixer clears high iodide film in 30-40 seconds, I would think that one minute fixing time for paper is at least realistic.

I'm just using the standard Ilford archival sequence (film strength fixer, 1:4 for 60 seconds) Using Ilford classic and warm fibre and soon to be using Adox MCCC fibre.

koraks · Jun 9, 2019

markbau said:
I've read through all the posts but I'm not clear if you can use this fixer at 1:4 for 60 seconds for paper.

Yes, you can. I do so routinely.

Rudeofus · Jun 10, 2019

I have done all kinds of things with my photographic materials, but can't recommend these procedures to others unless they have a solid track record or passed some credible testing. I don't think anyone can claim "One minute in Adofix is enough for every paper out there".

koraks · Jun 10, 2019

If it hadn't worked, I would have run into severe problems with sepia toning long ago.

pentaxuser · Jun 16, 2019

For the seekers of those of us looking for good information it might be helpful if both Koraks and Rudeofus were to give is a list of papers where 1 min has worked so we can check for commonality and in the case of Rudeofus a separate list where 1 min hasn't worked

Thanks

pentaxuser.

RalphLambrecht · Jun 16, 2019

bernard_L said:
Recently I bought for the first time Adox fixer Adofix Plus. Label says "Rapid Fixer". Prepared 1+9 dilution about 3 weeks ago. Processed just 3 prints 13x18cm (5x7"). Today performed a clip test (35mm film) to establish the (almost) new condition and later monitor for exhaustion.
Clearing took just over 3 minutes. Previously, with Ilford rapid fixer, or Tetenal Superfix, the 1+9 dilution (what I use for paper for paper) passed the film clip test in just over 1 minute (fresh mix, discard when clearing time has doubled).
Does anyone have a similar or relevant experience? I wonder whether the Adox Adofix has:
- lower concentration and therefore capacity per bottle of concentrate
or..
- some different formulation, say semi-rapid(??) as a compromise to achieve other properties??

Also, this: "After opening the concentrate shall be used up within about 3 months.". Other brands may have a similar warning. I do not use up 1 litre of concentrate in 3 months. I do perform regular clip tests. Any comments, other than the stern warning "abide by the writing on the label"?

are you sure about the dilution. other rapid fixers are used1+4 for film.

darkosaric · Jun 16, 2019

bernard_L said:
Prepared 1+9 dilution about 3 weeks ago

I don't know about you guys, but I never keep diluted fixer for long time - once diluted, one week max, regardless of the brand.

eatfrog · Jun 16, 2019

darkosaric said:
I don't know about you guys, but I never keep diluted fixer for long time - once diluted, one week max, regardless of the brand.

i keep my diluted fixer for months and months, never had any issues.. at most probably around 6 mo.

Rudeofus · Jun 16, 2019

eatfrog said:
i keep my diluted fixer for months and months, never had any issues.. at most probably around 6 mo.

This works well with neutral or alkaline fixers, but typically doesn't work with acidic fixers. I've seen many a working solution of acidic fixer sulfur out after a few months.

pentaxuser · Jun 16, 2019

Rudeofus said:
This works well with neutral or alkaline fixers, but typically doesn't work with acidic fixers. I've seen many a working solution of acidic fixer sulfur out after a few months.

I take it that the fixer's appearance changes when it sulphurs out? So if my fixer which I keep for film in green glass bottles filled to the top of the brim has not changed then can I take it that it hasn't sulphured out?

Thanks

pentaxuser

lantau · Jun 16, 2019

My current diluted acidic Adofix (no shitty Plus) is dated 19.11.2018. I didn't to much developing this year, so it stood at three films for a long time. The last few days I increased that to nine films. TMZ and TMX cleared in just under 50s, HP5+ in just under 30s.

The concentrate has been open for probably more than a year. No more than 200mL left in there since above date.

I had Adofix sulfur out on me once. I left it in the positive dark room at my brothers place for quite a long time, never touching it. The concentrate and dilution both died, with plenty sulfur at the bottom.

The newer Adofix Plus is supposed to have a better buffer, but how much better do I need? Someone, perhaps Rudeufos, mentioned that more and complex buffer means less fixer that can go into the concentrate before it saturates. So this Adofix is the last I'll use and in future I will only buy neutral fix. I had the Rollei stuff in the positive darkroom for more than half a year while I was doing colour. It is still fixing fine after returning it into the Nova. I wonder if Adox could license TF5 for distribution in Europe...

Rudeofus · Jun 16, 2019

pentaxuser said:
I take it that the fixer's appearance changes when it sulphurs out? So if my fixer which I keep for film in green glass bottles filled to the top of the brim has not changed then can I take it that it hasn't sulphured out?

I have seen two failure modes with fixers:

sulfuring out: At first all sulfite is oxidized to sulfate, and once this is complete, thiosulfate starts getting oxidized. This is where pH drops sharply and sulfuring out occurs. A better buffer may delay the drop below 4.5 or whatever it takes to disproportionate thiosulfate, but it won't slow down oxidation. Therefore I am not overly convinced whether a good buffer makes a significant difference to longevity.
slowing down: I have mixed quite a few very rapid fixers close to C-41 fixer, typically a combination of Ammonium Thiosulfate, Ammonium Thiocyanate, some sulfite/metabisulfite, and in some cases DTOD, pH always around 6.5. These fixers would initially clear Tri-X in about 15 seconds, and I have never seen such a fixer sulfur out, even after a year. However, whenever such a fixer bottle would sit in the shelf for over 6 months, fixer would still look and smell like fresh, but fixing speed would suddenly slow down - Tri-X would suddenly take a minute to clear. I have no idea what causes this or how to prevent it.

koraks · Jun 16, 2019

pentaxuser said:
For the seekers of those of us looking for good information it might be helpful if both Koraks and Rudeofus were to give is a list of papers where 1 min has worked so we can check for commonality and in the case of Rudeofus a separate list where 1 min hasn't worked

Thanks

pentaxuser.

Worked for me:
RC:
Fomaspeed
Adox MCP
Ilford Warmtone
Rollei Vintage Warmtone

Fiber:
Adox MCC
Fomatone
Fomabrom
Agfa Brovira pre-1990
Adox Variotone
Bergger Warmtone
These are the papers I use or have used regularly.

I have not come across any papers that give problems with 1 minute fixing in acid 1+4 rapid fixer as long as the fixer is reasonably fresh and not overused.

To get a bit of a feeling (although not an objective or reliable benchmark) of fixing rates, let a piece of paper fog under white light until it "prints out" and then fix it. The majority of the "printed out" silver will fix away (as makers of lumen prints know and grieve over), giving a visual clue on the rate of fixing and the pattern at which it occurs in relation to parameters like agitation. Evidently, this approach is NOT a reliable way to determine the clear time as you'd use with film. It only gives an impression of the dynamics of the fixing process.

RalphLambrecht · Jun 17, 2019

Rudeofus said:
This works well with neutral or alkaline fixers, but typically doesn't work with acidic fixers. I've seen many a working solution of acidic fixer sulfur out after a few months.

I follow the two-bath fixing method ,which requires frequent renewal of fixer. underfixing is one of the most damaging processing errors.

Rudeofus · Jun 17, 2019

RalphLambrecht said:
I follow the two-bath fixing method ,which requires frequent renewal of fixer. underfixing is one of the most damaging processing errors.

Two bath fixing requires less frequent renewal of fixer, per Ilford's docs two bath fixing allows one to process four times as many sheets per fixer quantity as single bath fixing. I do agree with your statement, that underfixing is very bad.

Adox Adofix. A rapid fixer?

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Adox Adofix. A rapid fixer?

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