adapt-a-roll 620 film holder

[spoolman]

Hellooes anybody know if the 2x3 version of this roll film holder will fit a Zeiss Maximar 207/7 plate camera ?.

Thanks

Doug

 

[Whiteymorange]

No specifics, I'm afraid, but there is no flange on the edge of the Adapt-a-roll, and it's a bit thick for any of the plate cameras I have.

 

[Larry Bullis]

I've had one of those things for a long time. Never could figure out what to do with it!

 

[Whiteymorange]

I've had one of those things for a long time. Never could figure out what to do with it!

It's actually a pretty neat piece of gear, and will load 120 with no problems as long as you have the 620 take-up reel. I use mine with a Busch Pressman C. One of it's advantages is that the film, going through the system backwards (paper in, film out) is held quite tightly, and the 6x9 format has fewer flatness issues than with some other holders.

Of course, loading the thing is a bit weird the first time.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Whitey, you left out the, um, best part. AAR 620s will give nine (9) shots on a 120 roll. If you don't believe me, run a scrap roll through and mark the edges of every frame.

bowzart, AAR 620s slip in like cut film holders, are the best solution to shooting roll film on 2x3 and 3x4 cameras that have spring backs. The very similar Calumet C-2 is for 4x5 only, bot most of the ones sold shoot 6x7. 6x9ers exist, are uncommon.

 

[Larry Bullis]

Hmm, sounds like I need to find the thing. I believe it is a 6x9, which is a favorite format of mine.

Thanks, this is very useful information.

 

[spoolman]

adapt-a roll 620 roll film holder

Hello All:Thanks for your input and info.How do you focus with this holder,do you use the rangefinder or do you use the groundglass and insert the holder after focusing ?.

Thanks again,

Doug

 

[Whiteymorange]

Hello All:Thanks for your input and info.How do you focus with this holder,do you use the rangefinder or do you use the groundglass and insert the holder after focusing ?.

Thanks again,

Doug

I have a range-finder that is set to the 101mm lens on the camera. After checking it through a few rolls, I have come to trust it, though I'm not sure I trust my eyes all of the time!

 

[spoolman]

Hey Whitey:Thanks for the info.As soon as it comes in,I'll give it a whirl.

Thanks again,

Doug

 

[spoolman]

Hello All:Just got the holder the other day.Can someone tell me how to set the frame counter up ?.There appears to be two sets of numbers and two start points indicated by a "S" engraved on the take up spool wheel.One set starts at one and stops at 8 and the other starts at one and stops at 11.Where is the stop point on the inside of the holder to tell you to stop winding the film and close the back to expose the first frame?.

Thanks in advance,

Doug

 

[Whiteymorange]

The 1 to 8 are for 6x9 images. There is a short dark slide that came with the adapt-a-roll that would mask for 6x6 images, making useful the 1-11 numbering system. After loading the film and advancing it quite slowly, just until the tape holding the film to the backing paper becomes visible in the little slot you've opened (by pulling the dark slide back a bit) you close the slide, set the counter to the red mark that is offset from the red number 1 and advance the film through (I think) 5 more clicks. This should leave the counter at the red 1 and the film just right for your first shot.

Try the entire process with a sacrificial roll, one that has been ruined or exposed already. I keep really old or cheap color film rolls I get from grab-bag auction bids for just this purpose.

I'll try to find and scan the instruction booklet for you if you'd like - just PM me with an email address.

 

[spoolman]

adapt-a-roll 620 roll film holder

Hello Whitey:Thanks for the info.I don't know how to PM yet so here is my email addresshotoguy@hdcanada.com.

Doug

 

[spoolman]

adapt-a-roll 620 roll film holder

Hi again Whitey:For some reason a smiley face has appeared over my email address so here it is againhotoguy@hdcanada.com.

Doug

 

[Fragomeni]

Hi all. I hope no one minds me reviving a 2 year old thread.

Does anyone know where I can find a 2x3 Adapt-A-Roll 620? I need one for a rebuild of a Kodak No. 1 Premoette Jr that originally shot 520 pack film (2 1/4 x 3 1/4). Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Francesco, I see that you're posting questions about AARs all over the place. I think you don't understand what you're trying to do.

For the fair dinkum on AARs, visit www.graflex.org and read the FAQ. I wrote it, I'm not going to type it again.

I don't believe you can use an AAR on a Premoette but could be mistaken. The AAR slides into a large format camera's back like a standard sheet film holder. If your Premoette will accept standard sheet film holders, you can use an AAR made for a 2x3 camera with it. But I've had two Premo #12s -- also 2x3 cameras -- that accepted only pack film and non-standard sheet film holders. Check whether an AAR for 2x3 will do what you need before buying one.

 

[Fragomeni]

Francesco, I see that you're posting questions about AARs all over the place. I think you don't understand what you're trying to do.

For the fair dinkum on AARs, visit www.graflex.org and read the FAQ. I wrote it, I'm not going to type it again.

I don't believe you can use an AAR on a Premoette but could be mistaken. The AAR slides into a large format camera's back like a standard sheet film holder. If your Premoette will accept standard sheet film holders, you can use an AAR made for a 2x3 camera with it. But I've had two Premo #12s -- also 2x3 cameras -- that accepted only pack film and non-standard sheet film holders. Check whether an AAR for 2x3 will do what you need before buying one.

Dan, yes thats me posting questions all over the place, after all thats how you find answers. Thanks for the response and the link. I've already read it, quite informative. It was actually one of the first articles I read on the AAR and I almost emailed you at the address listed at the bottom of the page to inquire further but I found my answers and didnt need to.

Anyway, I'm actually quite aware of what I'm trying to do. From what I understand (and of course I cant confirm this until I try it) Adapt-A-Rolls for 2x3 cameras do indeed fit the Premoette Jr. but I believe that it may require some small modifications to be a perfect fit. The AARs are narrower (just by a small amount) then many other available 2x3 roll film holders such as the graflex holders for 2x3 and others brands of holders. My issue is that I don't want to modify the camera at all so I need to find a happy medium that will allow me to shoot with the camera. If that means sheet film then so be it. Either way, I think I have as much information on the use of Adapt-A-Rolls for this purpose as I am going to get so if I find one for cheap I'll pick it up and give it a try and if it doesn't work then I'll just use it on another camera done the line.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Francesco, the issue isn't width, it is how the holder is held to the camera. The Premo 12 accepts holders with thin lips on each side that fit into grooves on each side of the camera's back. The AAR doesn't have the lips, must be held in place by a spring loaded focusing panel.

Simple test. If the Premoette's focusing panel slides out, you can use an AAR on it. If the Premoette's focusing panel is permanently attached by two springs then you can't.

 

[Fragomeni]

Francesco, the issue isn't width, it is how the holder is held to the camera. The Premo 12 accepts holders with thin lips on each side that fit into grooves on each side of the camera's back. The AAR doesn't have the lips, must be held in place by a spring loaded focusing panel.

Simple test. If the Premoette's focusing panel slides out, you can use an AAR on it. If the Premoette's focusing panel is permanently attached by two springs then you can't.

I hear what you're saying about how the AAR is intended to be held to the camera via spring loaded back but that does not mean that its the only way to attach it to the camera. Its like anything else, with a little ingenuity you can make many things that don't seemingly fit work quite well. Now I've personally seen roll a film holders that was basically clones of the AAR fit into the backs of a camera with very similar construction to the Premoette Jr. by sliding into the back of the camera exactly where the pack film was intended to go. I briefly met a guy who worked in a camera shop in Ohio a few years back who pulled this off with a larger variation of the Premo series (maybe the senior model, it was bigger then the Jr.). This would all be a lot easier if I actually knew the guy and could contact him to ask him how he did it. Anyway, the camera was larger then the Premoete Jr. and I believe he actually used the 4x5 AAR but it fit. He did need to remove the back door of the camera as with the AAR attached it of course did not close. For all I know he may have modified the AAR as well. Now I have no idea if or how he modified the camera to ensure that focusing was correct and that the camera was light tight but it did work by sliding into the back (and was not held in place by tension springs or a focusing back) and it took great pictures.

Now I understand he used a different camera and I believe a different size (and possibly modified) AAR all with different dimensions but what I do know is that the camera was of the same make and overall design (all Kodak Premo-series cameras were basically the same design just different sizes and dimensions) and he made this work. Remembering seeing this done is what started me on this idea with the Premoette Jr. in the first place. So we do know that although the AAR is designed to operate and be held in place a certain way that is not the only way that it can work. This entire discussion is about making something work in a way that it was not intended to and its based on past evidence that similar components of the same make can indeed operate outside of how they were designed so lets not work ourselves into a box. Its an experiment so we need to think outside of the intended operation of the components we're working with and if it works it works and if it doesn't it doesn't but after the fact at least we would have tried, learned, and we would know for sure.

I hope I don't sound snappy because I've learned a lot from materials that you've produced and I appreciate that but the point is that the original design intentions of the AAR (or anything else for that matter within the realm of experimentation) don't matter. Until I can find a 2x3 AAR I'll be replacing the bellows and cleaning up the camera and I'll probably set it up with some sheet film so I can shoot with it but if I do find the AAR I'll at least be able to let you and anyone else curious about this know if it works without excessive modification or not. I'll probably stop there because like I said I have no intention to chop up the Premoette Jr (unless I find a junker to experiment on).

 

[Larry Bullis]

I'm not sure, Francesco, but I may have one. I used to have one, several moves ago, and I can't imagine giving it away, but who knows? When things get confusing enough... There have been several years of major confusion.

I will put it in my mind to look next time I go over to the garage where I have a lot of stuff stored. If you don't hear from me within two or three weeks, rattle my cage with a pm. NO GUARANTEES!

Larry

 

[Fragomeni]

I'm not sure, Francesco, but I may have one. I used to have one, several moves ago, and I can't imagine giving it away, but who knows? When things get confusing enough... There have been several years of major confusion.

I will put it in my mind to look next time I go over to the garage where I have a lot of stuff stored. If you don't hear from me within two or three weeks, rattle my cage with a pm. NO GUARANTEES!

Larry

Much appreciated! I'd love to get this figured out. If I don't hear from you in a few weeks I will rattle!

 

[leighmarrin]

Are you sure the camera you saw was of the Kodak Premo series? Your description sounds like a 6.5x9cm or 9x12cm German plate camera made in the 1910-1940 period. It used a slide-off single-plate/cut-film metal holder, or slide-off film pack, AND could be also used with a slide-in 120 rollfilm holder.

Zeiss/Ica, Voigtlander and many others made many of these, and the one you saw MAY have been made by Nagel, but BRANDED KODAK. Kodak contracted with Nagel to make a folding plate camera in the above sizes called the "Recomar" model.

They are fairly affordable, and are often found with an uncoated but fairly sharp Tessar lens or similar clone. If you're interested, check eBay for the more common camera models like "Maximar", "Avus", Reccomar", etc. Suydam, Rada, Rollex (sp?) and others made Euro-plate rollfilm holders.

...Now I've personally seen roll a film holders that was basically clones of the AAR fit into the backs of a camera with very similar construction to the Premoette Jr. by sliding into the back of the camera exactly where the pack film was intended to go. I briefly met a guy who worked in a camera shop in Ohio a few years back who pulled this off with a larger variation of the Premo series (maybe the senior model, it was bigger then the Jr.). This would all be a lot easier if I actually knew the guy and could contact him to ask him how he did it. Anyway, the camera was larger then the Premoete Jr. and I believe he actually used the 4x5 AAR but it fit. He did need to remove the back door of the camera as with the AAR attached it of course did not close. For all I know he may have modified the AAR as well. Now I have no idea if or how he modified the camera to ensure that focusing was correct and that the camera was light tight but it did work by sliding into the back (and was not held in place by tension springs or a focusing back) and it took great pictures.

Now I understand he used a different camera and I believe a different size (and possibly modified) AAR all with different dimensions but what I do know is that the camera was of the same make and overall design (all Kodak Premo-series cameras were basically the same design just different sizes and dimensions) and he made this work. Remembering seeing this done is what started me on this idea with the Premoette Jr. in the first place. So we do know that although the AAR is designed to operate and be held in place a certain way that is not the only way that it can work. This entire discussion is about making something work in a way that it was not intended to and its based on past evidence that similar components of the same make can indeed operate outside of how they were designed so lets not work ourselves into a box. Its an experiment so we need to think outside of the intended operation of the components we're working with and if it works it works and if it doesn't it doesn't but after the fact at least we would have tried, learned, and we would know for sure.

 

[guitstik]

I found 4x5 Mamiya 120 film back adapter on fleapay for $45 and I am in th process of "adapting" the adapter to one of my old six-16 bellows cameras. Instead of tring to find an old AAR why don't you go that route, unless you just have to have one.

 

[Fragomeni]

I found 4x5 Mamiya 120 film back adapter on fleapay for $45 and I am in th process of "adapting" the adapter to one of my old six-16 bellows cameras. Instead of tring to find an old AAR why don't you go that route, unless you just have to have one.

Thats a really good idea. Let us know how that works out for you. I can see that working for a six-16 camera because they are on the larger size but the Premoette Jr. is tiny. There's no way an adapter back made for 4x5 would be able to fit the Premoette Jr.'s tiny 4 3/8 x 2 7/8 (outside dimensions) and 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 (film area) without chopping it down to nothing and I don't think Mamiya makes a 2x3 adapter back (but I could be wrong).