Achieving extremely grainy Delta 3200 (Dektol, maybe?)

you can also make a batch of caffenol C and add straight dektol into it
i don't use dektol, but i do this with ansco 130, which is my main film developer ...
it might be a little different since ansco 130 has glycin in it, and dektol doesn't,
but i am sure it will give you an interesting, grainy look ...
i use this developer with tmx, tmy, xxx, +x,
neopan, foma, efke, ilford, pretty much every film i have shot
outdated, in date, almost out of date, "exposed (but when?) and just found" it doesn't really matter ...

8 oz. water
4 slightly rounded tsp. instant coffee
2 tsp. washing soda
1000 mg Vitamin C (1/4 tsp powder)


i don't ever measure, but do healthy "dumps" of the coffee, and other ingredients.
i add the print developer at the end. after the vit c is added,
sometimes when the concoction is stirred up, it sometimes foams like mad, that is OK.
i add maybe 100 or 200cc's of print developer ( sorry i eyeball and like everything else
i am not sure of the exact measurement ) ...

leave the film to stand in this strange brew for as long as you see fit ...
for me, this is about 25mins ... the print developer adds a bit of contrast
to the film. the grain is pronounced, different, and very nice ...

sometimes i will not add the print developer until 3/4 of the main development is over ...
so i cut the development time to 20 mins, and add the print developer for
the last chunk of time ...

the last few images i posted in the gallery were done like that ...
and most of the images in my gallery with just cafC with print developer
for the whole time the film was standing still ...

have fun!

john

ps. disclaimer: YMMV

Awesome look, John, I'll have to try it!

mabman said:

Awesome look, John, I'll have to try it!

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try it on something that doesn't matter first
so if it doesn't look or work out as you expect
it wasn't on something too important
good luck!

john

Noted. One question: when you add the print developer, are you adding just stock solution, or are you diluting it at all?

mabman said:

Noted. One question: when you add the print developer, are you adding just stock solution, or are you diluting it at all?

Click to expand...

i just add stock solution ..
so instead of diluting the print developer
with water, you are diluting it with the developer

have fun!

john

In my experiments with Dektol it seemed to bring out or hold more tonality and increased the speed of the film. I tried to overexpose the film y 2 stops and under develop using semi stand to restrain the highlights. The film had well defined grain, but it was not big and lumpy like I wanted. I tried it on TXP and SXX and therefore it may not be applicable to the Delta. I am by no means an expert at B&W film dev. (Cardwell is though)

I am by no means an expert at B&W film dev. (Cardwell is though)

Not so much, John. But I DO remember how guys did in days gone by,
who made it sing !

One CAN make a carbonate developer from scratch, or use something probably laying around. And by the time you're done inventing a wheel, it'll look like diluted Dektol. Go figure.

Film HAVE CHANGED hugely in the past 40 years, and changed a LOT in the past ten. 'New' Tri-X has far less granularity than - it seems - yesterday.

A good guide for granularity estimates is in the Kodak poop sheet for each film. Kodak also has a 'guide to granularity' or some such technical document which explains what it means. Get it, read it. Ilford DOES NOT publish this sort of stuff, and Fuji does, a little. So just assume that Delta 3200 is like TMAX 3200 (for it is) and compare it to TriX, PLus X, etc.

DOWNLOAD THIS NOW BEFORE IT DISAPPEARS:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/e58/e58.pdf

mabman said:

I've got some subject matter that I think will look good (or at least interesting) shot with a Holga, and it would lend itself well to a "moody", rather grainy texture.

So, I'd like to experiment with exaggerated grain with Delta 3200. After some searching and reading, some people suggest Rodinal 1+25 and using times from the Massive Dev. Chart should be good (the subject matter should be roughly 3200 or maybe 6400 ISO). I already have some Rodinal, so that might work. However, I've read with some films developing in print developers such as Dektol can possibly enhance the grain even further - but I can't find any times for starting points with Dektol or similar.

Being a Holga, this will be shot on 120 film, esp. as I don't really want to mess around with adapting it to 35mm (I know one suggestion is to shoot a smaller format and enlarge to emphasize the grain, but I won't be doing that here).

Any suggestions for this combo appreciated.

Click to expand...

Rodinal does seem to produce exaggerated grain in D3200/120 - i.e. more grain than you would get using D76 but it still isn't what most people would call very grainy simply because of the relatively small enlargement ratio you will likely use printing the 120 film.
Example on 120 D3200: http://www.pbase.com/mononation/image/65231875
Example on 135 D3200 http://www.pbase.com/mononation/image/65663434
One thing that helps a lot is to print at quite high contrast, grade 4-5

"I've got some subject matter that I think will look good (or at least interesting) shot with a Holga, and it would lend itself well to a "moody", rather grainy texture."

I've posted links to my wife's zone plate imagery in various places recently and I THOUGHT that I had done so in this thread, because it is such an obvious thing to do and so directly pertinent to your issue. Searched my posts, and whad'ya'know, nothing of the kind. If I'm missing it and duplicating my own post, I hope that you will excuse.

She's using Δ3200 in 120 format; we cracked the lens out of a Lubitel TLR and replaced it with the zone plate. WE DO NOT PUSH the film (I never do that) - she exposes it at EI800. I process it for her in Beutler's, in a jobo, for 1/2 hour at 65°F. This works GREAT and I suspect that you may find it interesting. With the Holga, you may get enough flare to approximate the limited contrast on the boundaries from one value to another; the zp, like a pinhole, allows only a rather limited or slow transition between values. Even if this isn't quite the same with the Holga, it's probably worth a try, but it could shorten your development time. We can develop a loooong time and still have to increase contrast in the print because of the limits I mention.

The image is very much like a mezzotint. The values are defined by the density of the dots; density in the visual sense, not the sensitometric.

Beutler's gives grain very similar to Rodinal. Sharp grain, definitely NOT FINE.

Here's the link: http://www.pbase.com/janealynn/janealynn

I just looked at the images. There are some artifacts (streaks in the sky in a few of them). I don't know where those crept in, but they are not in the original.

Cool, Bowz. Got any Brovira #5 in a trunk in the basement ?

df cardwell said:

Cool, Bowz. Got any Brovira #5 in a trunk in the basement ?

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Actually, I believe I might have a bit of Brovira #6.

"Actually, I believe I might have a bit of Brovira #6."

Grrrrrrr ....!

Yeah, well.

What Brother Zuili says.

I tried a few experiments with TMZ trying to get grainy results. Nothing (including Dektol, DK-60a, and Rodinal) made much difference in the amount or size of grain. Rodinal often makes grain more apparent, however, and may be worth a try.

nworth said:

I tried a few experiments with TMZ trying to get grainy results. Nothing (including Dektol, DK-60a, and Rodinal) made much difference in the amount or size of grain. Rodinal often makes grain more apparent, however, and may be worth a try.

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The OP wants 120 film, TMZ is only available in 135 size.

Try overexposing the film. I didn't see anyone mention this but it will increase the grain. Overexpose/Overdevelop is the best way to get gobs of grain in my experience.

Patrick

patrickjames said:

Try overexposing the film. I didn't see anyone mention this but it will increase the grain. Overexpose/Overdevelop is the best way to get gobs of grain in my experience.

Patrick

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hey i said that earlier

Sorry jd I used the skim method of reading this thread.....

jd callow said:

hey i said that earlier

Click to expand...

...as did I.

jnanian said:

you can also make a batch of caffenol C and add straight dektol into it
...
john

ps. disclaimer: YMMV

Click to expand...

OK, I've tried this on a test roll of Tri-X - first, there should be a disclaimer about Caffenol-C's odour - I have since read it described as "burnt bacon grease" - that's about right Otherwise, I added 200 ml of stock Dektol, and I did agitate for 30 seconds, and then left it alone for the remainder of 25 min. It ended up very overdeveloped, but I can still see an image against a strong light, so it might scan/print OK still. Next time I will try less Dektol and less agitation.

Dektol dilute 1:3 90 seconds

Use a presoak.