Acheving these tones?

Katie · Aug 22, 2011

Here is a link to an award winning print on the new Ilford Multigrade Art 300 paper. It says "cool base and neutral to warm image tone". Should I assume this image has been toned (as he mentions that this paper tones well)? How do you think I can get these tones myself? Dev? Strength? Toner? Is it this paper or can I get it with other papers (that I may currently own...)

TIA!

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/ilford-multigrade-art-300-paper-used-for-award-winning-image-16813

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 22, 2011

I wonder if it's a lith print?

http://www.lithprint.com/

hpulley · Aug 22, 2011

I expect that warmtone developer and toning has been used. I haven't used 300 yet but love Ilford Warmtone developed in Bromophen 1+3 then toned in Selenium 1+4 to completion. I have a bottle of Harman Warmtone developer on the shelf I've been meaning to try as well.

That image looks perhaps more like sepia rather than my selenium tones.

Old Nest 2 MGWT in Berg Selenium (Explored) by Harry Pulley, on Flickr

Brass, wood, aluminum and brick by Harry Pulley, on Flickr

Dead Link Removed
Dead Link Removed by Harry Pulley, on Flickr

Katie · Aug 22, 2011

Thanks guys - didn't look like any of my (all three of them) selenium toned prints either. I have been wanting to get some Neutol to try some warm image prints - and then selenium tone them. Just wondered if this paper might have something new to add (in regards to tone).

Fragomeni · Aug 22, 2011

I've been quite excited about the new Art 300 paper myself. I plan on ordering some very soon. Perhaps someone can try getting in touch with Jon Butler to ask him how he made the print. The photo community isn't really that large so I'm sure he could be contacted.

DREW WILEY · Aug 22, 2011

It looks like a split-toned lith print - one toner cold, the other warm, though this can be done in several
different ways and requires a little practice with the timing, concentration, temp, etc. Hard to guess the
developer, since there are several options here too. Ilford MG Warmtone is also capable of these kinds of
effects. My hunch is that the difference between these papers is more related to the texture than the
emulsion itself.

Sim2 · Aug 22, 2011

In my limited experience with the MG300 paper the emulsion is different to MG Warmtone - it is about a stop slower and reacts much slower (more controlable?) in selenium than MG Warmtone but compared to a matt paper the matt(ish) finish of the MG300 can get some really deep sparkly blacks. Quite a subject specific paper I think, just not found my subject for it!

Sim2.

smieglitz · Aug 22, 2011

Looks like a thiocarbamide (thiourea) sepia-toned print to me, probably with the pH adjusted to give yellowish rather than reddish hues. Could also have some selenium in the mix. Check out Daniel Lin's APUG gallery for some superb examples. His handle is "dlin."

Here's a link to one of his landscapes:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

c6h6o3 · Aug 22, 2011

Katie said:
Here is a link to an award winning print on the new Ilford Multigrade Art 300 paper. It says "cool base and neutral to warm image tone". Should I assume this image has been toned (as he mentions that this paper tones well)? How do you think I can get these tones myself? Dev? Strength? Toner? Is it this paper or can I get it with other papers (that I may currently own...)

TIA!

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/ilford-multigrade-art-300-paper-used-for-award-winning-image-16813

Do you mean tone or color? The tone is achieved through negative exposure, development and printing. Print color is achieved in various other ways.

ath · Aug 23, 2011

I think it is lith. Some papers show this putty/slightly pink colour. No idea if MG300 is one of them. Typical for lith is the low highlight contrast and the high shadow contrast.

e.g. here's a picture from W. Moersch's Gallery, Fomabrom Variant in his Easylith developer.

Katie · Aug 23, 2011

c6h6o3 said:
Do you mean tone or color? The tone is achieved through negative exposure, development and printing. Print color is achieved in various other ways.

Both. The previous poster got it right - "Typical for lith is the low highlight contrast and the high shadow contrast." AND the actual color - the cool shadows and warm highlights. I guess my darkness love affair is showing itself here - I tend to like darker prints; as in more separation of shadow and less bright overall highlights. Not muddy, but darker. MAke sense?

c6h6o3 · Aug 23, 2011

Katie said:
Both. The previous poster got it right - "Typical for lith is the low highlight contrast and the high shadow contrast." AND the actual color - the cool shadows and warm highlights. I guess my darkness love affair is showing itself here - I tend to like darker prints; as in more separation of shadow and less bright overall highlights. Not muddy, but darker. MAke sense?

Then from what I see on your website, I'd say that you should expose your negatives more and develop them less. That will help you achieve the desired tonality. The color achieved with Ilford Warmtone papers is just lovely, IMHO, especially when developed in amidol. A warm brownish black. Why not just try the paper? You can get Ansco 130 from Photographer's Formulary which is very close to amidol.

To each his own, but I can't stand any print with even the slightest hint of pink or purple. I would try printing them straight first and see if you like the color. Even Dektol yields a nice warm color with Ilford Multigrade Warmtone. Probably will with the new paper, too.

Katie · Aug 23, 2011

c6h6o3 said:
Then from what I see on your website, I'd say that you should expose your negatives more and develop them less. That will help you achieve the desired tonality. The color achieved with Ilford Warmtone papers is just lovely, IMHO, especially when developed in amidol. A warm brownish black. Why not just try the paper? You can get Ansco 130 from Photographer's Formulary which is very close to amidol.

To each his own, but I can't stand any print with even the slightest hint of pink or purple. I would try printing them straight first and see if you like the color. Even Dektol yields a nice warm color with Ilford Multigrade Warmtone. Probably will with the new paper, too.

Will do! Thanks for the tips!

Jon Butler · Aug 23, 2011

Katie,

First all the image on the Internet is a fair bit darker than the real prints, not sure how that happened, I hate scanning print!

The extract below is from the Ilford site and explains how the print was made.
Hope it helps.

Regards J.

"The image was taken in 2010 on the island of Agistri in the Saronic Islands, not far from Athens, using a 4x5 view camera with a 47XL mm lens and I had been waiting for those clouds for over 4 weeks.

In the darkroom I had a change of mind on the composition and cropped the 4x5 sheet of HP5 to a small 7cm square at the enlarging stage, the base exposure at g2 (no filtration) was held back for a 1/3 of a stop at the bottom then the sky burnt in for an additional 1½ stops at g5 then developed in Bromophen 1/5 for 3 mins. After washing, the print was partially bleached and lightly sepia toned, and a final bath in selenium mixed at 1-10

Ive printed the image on both Art 300 and WT gloss but much prefer the Art 300 even though it has a lower resolution because of the textured surface, it suits the subject I think.
This was the first image I printed with Art 300 and it is so easy to handle and a joy to use with the added bonus of being very durable throughout processing and dries flat easily. Ive used this paper quite a bit since this first print and most people seem to love the results."

Katie · Aug 23, 2011

Jon Butler said:
Katie,

First all the image on the Internet is a fair bit darker than the real prints, not sure how that happened, I hate scanning print!

I always assume that print scans NEVER do justice to the actual print, so you can be assured that I had the print looking beautifully in my mind!

THANK YOU for responding to my inquiry - it is really awesome of you to take the time to assist others that admire your work so. You are doing your part in keeping this wonderful craft alive!

I have just started fiddling with bleaching and selenium toning. I will get some Bromophen and start playing!

hpulley · Aug 23, 2011

Interesting about the split toning on MG paper. I've read that some don't like this as the two emulsions can tone differently.

For me sepia toner is hazmat so hard to get here so thus far I stick to heavy metal selenium which is somehow easier to get... Copper is fun too but I find split selenium/copper always turns out badly for me so I use them separately.

eddie · Aug 23, 2011

Jon- Thanks for replying to the original question. The sharing of knowledge is what makes this site special.
Katie- keep asking questions, and sharing your results.
Gerald- You really shouldn't disparage other members work without putting your own up to the same scrutiny.

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 24, 2011

x2

The really good ones don't usually have time to participate here, because they're busy making prints.

Steve Sherman said:
Seriously???

I've already seen your retraction so I'm inclined to give you a pass. However, this post and another I saw just today, "Is Photography Dead?" Really??

I can't help but think, if you don't have something positive to say then just say nothing at all. Sadly, these forums are fueled by those who constantly want to disagree, correct and in the end pound their own chest from a higher plateau.

I really wonder how many quality photogs and or those blessed with really wonderful insight these forums have poisoned since their inception, we'll never know.

What I do know, through only two or three personal acquaintances I've made through these forums have blossomed into several dozen quality friends who just happen to be terrific photogs, almost to a man they rarely participate in these forums.

2 cents!

c6h6o3 · Aug 24, 2011

Jon Butler said:
I rarely post on APUG, you can see why!
I was asked to help, sorry for my post Mr. Koch.
J.

I think it's a beautiful image, Jon. Thanks for your explanations. I'll definitely make it a point to try the new paper.

JBrunner · Aug 31, 2011

What an impressive mess, I may have set a record. Where to start was easy, where to end? Not so easy. Please don't feed trolls, just report them. When you respond, all that happens is the further derailment of the topic, and bigger mess for the moderator. If you simply report a post, it can be removed, much like a wart, rather than the limb I have just amputated. So before you respond to something vitriolic and off topic, try to remember that there is a little exclamation point down in the left corner of every post, with which an unseen Kraken can be summoned from the darkest depths of APUG to snuff the troll for you, and nary a squeak to be heard as the water rushes back. Remember, I love you all.

We now return you to the regularly scheduled program.

Acheving these tones?

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