? About Hand Coated Prints

photomc · Oct 29, 2004

Many here coat their own paper and was wondering how do you 'mask' for a better description the paper when you print? Or in a simpler way, how the heck do you get a nice clean border without the overbursh?

There are times I like it and other times wish it wasn't there. Seems like I have read where some us rubylith on the glass of the contact printer but could you use black construction paper to make a template? Could you use a template over the paper while you coat it..

Just curious.

Thanks,

Mateo · Oct 29, 2004

I use image setter masking sheets for a Heidelberg GTO 52. They are opaque to UV and have a convenient grid marked on them. After cutting one a few inches bigger than the negative, I lay it over the neg on a light table and mark the grid. Then just cut with a razor knife and tape the neg corners with rubylith. Also cool about masking negs is that it leave a place to write notes for each neg.

One more cool thing about masking is that every print is a test of the clearing process.

wm blunt · Oct 29, 2004

I use rubylith or sometimes orange masking paper used by the printing industry. You tape the negative to the mask. Another approach that works for me is to use tape designed for painting ( the purple stuff from Lowe's Home Improvement Stores). Before I coat the paper I outline the area with the tape, coat the paper then remove tape before drying the paper. Leaves a nice clean edge on smooth papers but rough papers not as good.
Using rubylith or orange masking is a good way to keep a check on your clearing, if any sign of yellow you are not clearing your paper good enough.

sanking · Oct 29, 2004

photomc said:
Many here coat their own paper and was wondering how do you 'mask' for a better description the paper when you print? Or in a simpler way, how the heck do you get a nice clean border without the overbursh?

There are times I like it and other times wish it wasn't there. Seems like I have read where some us rubylith on the glass of the contact printer but could you use black construction paper to make a template? Could you use a template over the paper while you coat it..

Just curious.

Thanks,

There are many ways to do this. Most commonly I mask the negative with lithographers tape, and then use the masked negative to determine the area of the paper that is to be coated. Then I mask the area of the paper that is to be coated with paper with a quick release masking paper, and then coat. To expose, position the negative over the paper in such a way that except for the area that is to be exposed all of the rest of the coated area is masked.

Sandy

Joe Symchyshyn · Oct 29, 2004

There are times I like it and other times wish it wasn't there. Seems like I have read where some us rubylith on the glass of the contact printer but could you use black construction paper to make a template?

I've used rubylith before with great success... You could use anything that will block all the light from hitting your coating.

Could you use a template over the paper while you coat it..

I would think that that would be the hard way to go about it, but I guess in theory it would work great.

My vote is for the rubylith or anything opaque (and thin) that will keep the contact print in contact.

Good luck!

joe

George Losse · Oct 29, 2004

You don't always have to use a brush to hand coat a paper. I tried the brush and shortly after starting switched to a glass rod. It keeps the "over coating" down but you still need to go beyond the edges of the negative to be sure it is evenly coated. Somebody was selling them, I don't remember. But I had a friend who worked with glass, so she made me some. I made them in diferent lengths for each of the format sizes I was printing at them time.

Have you thought about masking your negatives in a ruby lith over something to block the light from hitting the paper? I experimented with it once, but didn't like the look. So, I never repeated the experiment.

Joe Symchyshyn · Oct 29, 2004

Somebody was selling them, I don't remember.

Bostick & Sullivan - "The Puddle Pusher"

joe

photomc · Oct 29, 2004

Now, I'm impressed - these are really good and varied responses. Mateo, where did you pick up the image setter masking sheets? In general, should I be able to find ruby lith at any art supply store?

Really like the sound of the image setter masking sheets, since it sounds like a good way to store the negative and keep all data together.

Thanks,

photomc · Oct 29, 2004

Actually have one of the puddle pushers from B&S, but find I get as good coverage from a foam brush as I do with it (now that may be because I'm not doing it right or the volume of solution is too high).

Michael Mutmansky · Oct 29, 2004

Mike,

I used to use rubylith and sometimes goldenrod, but I found that sometimes the edges would still get a little sensitized, and so it would not completely clear afterward. (I often am using very little restrainer).

I started masking the paper with Scotch (3M) 2070 Safe Release tape, and never have that problem anymore. I have a piece of mat board cut to the size I typically use for my prints. I lay it on the paper with some weight, and then run the tape around the four sides. Pull off the mat board, and use a boning tool to get solid contact between the paper and the tape, and coat away.

When the coating is dry, pull off the tape, and you are ready to go.

I still occasionally use rubylith, but since I started using the tape, I rarely use any other method.

---Michael

donbga · Oct 29, 2004

photomc said:
In general, should I be able to find ruby lith at any art supply store?

Thanks,

Pearl Art Supply or any retailer that sells graphic arts materials usually stocks ruby or amber lith and rubylith tape. You can also use a UV opaque colored art paper, black or red for example about 40lb weight.

Most times I will mask the negative to give even white borders on the print, sometimes however I will add a quater inch or so on each side of the mask opening to create a DMAX border which will be seen when the print is matted.

I also try to cut the outside dimensions of the masking material to match the paper size unless it is a pretty large print. This way your image will be centered on the paper.

Don Bryant

clay · Oct 29, 2004

http://www.misterart.com/store/view.cfm?group_id=656&store=001

cut a mask with this ruby lith stuff, and put the negative ON TOP of the mask, IOW, the mask sits between the negative and your paper. I learned the hard way that you can get refracted light out the edges of your negative which will leave a nice thin unsightly black border on your pristine white paper. Using a mask is also the best method to check and make absolutely sure your clearing procedures are working properly. If you see stain or other stuff in the masked-off area, then your clearing methods are not adequate.

Mateo · Oct 29, 2004

photomc said:
Actually have one of the puddle pushers from B&S, but find I get as good coverage from a foam brush as I do with it (now that may be because I'm not doing it right or the volume of solution is too high).

Check out the thread about the Richeson 9010 brush. For me it uses less drops than the glass rod and is allot more fun. That foam brush is probably eating you alive.

wm blunt · Oct 29, 2004

Clay,
No wonder I get a faint line once in awhile, I have putting the neg. between the paper and mask. Learn something everyday on this forum!

sanking · Oct 29, 2004

Mateo said:
Check out the thread about the Richeson 9010 brush. For me it uses less drops than the glass rod and is allot more fun. That foam brush is probably eating you alive.

Ditto on the Richeson. I bought three of the Richeson brushes in different sizes and gave the coating rods to a friend. In retrospect I feel guilty about giving them to a friend -- would have been better to have just thrown them in the garbage and told him about the Richeson.

Sandy

Jorge · Oct 29, 2004

clay said:
http://www.misterart.com/store/view.cfm?group_id=656&store=001

cut a mask with this ruby lith stuff, and put the negative ON TOP of the mask, IOW, the mask sits between the negative and your paper. I learned the hard way that you can get refracted light out the edges of your negative which will leave a nice thin unsightly black border on your pristine white paper. Using a mask is also the best method to check and make absolutely sure your clearing procedures are working properly. If you see stain or other stuff in the masked-off area, then your clearing methods are not adequate.

Dont you loose any sharpness at the edges like this? I thought about doing this whay but thought since ther will be a little space in between the negative and the paper, that I would loose shapness in the edges. I have had that very faint line in my prints on ocassion and always wondered what the hell caused it, I thought it was too much pressure from the vacuum frame....go figure..

clay · Oct 29, 2004

That stuff is so thin that the vacuum frame or printing frame pretty much makes the any worries about lack of sharpness a moot point. BTW, I want to give credit to Kerik for alerting me to this phenomenom. He saw some of my prints I was getting ready for Fotofest that showed this faint black border, and it turns out he had had the same problem about five years earlier. As soon as I started putting the mask beneath the negative, the problem went away. Any sharpness loss is too small to even notice. And anyway, as Kerik also said shortly after pointing this out: "Print sniffers never buy prints anyway"

Jorge · Oct 29, 2004

clay said:
"Print sniffers never buy prints anyway"

lol.....Thanks Clay, once more I owe you one.
BTW, you should use that as your signature, it is now on the T shirt...

Michael Mutmansky · Oct 30, 2004

What Clay mentions is effectively a small amount of light that gets 'trapped' in the thickness of the film base, similar to how fiber optics work. Once it gets to the edge of the film, it dumps out onto the paper.

There's nother reason that the borders under rubylith can show up sometimes, in addition to this. A very thin coating on the paper has a much higher printing speed then a thick coating. This happens especially when using a brush to caot, as there are often 'wisps' of coating out at the edges that may be excessively thin. They will sensitize with much less UV exposure. If I see that, I double up the rubylith, and it normally takes care of the problem.

---Michael

wm blunt · Oct 30, 2004

Tried Clay's suggestion today and it worked perfect. Used orange base line masking sheet between neg and paper. No problems and print is sharp with nice clean borders. Thanks Clay, Kerik,....

Jorge · Oct 30, 2004

wm blunt said:
Tried Clay's suggestion today and it worked perfect. Used orange base line masking sheet between neg and paper. No problems and print is sharp with nice clean borders. Thanks Clay, Kerik,....

Ditto, but I did it differently than William, I cut a center square in a piece of 16x20 rubylith so that the negative fits exactly and then covered the sides with rubylith strips about 1/4 inch from the edges. All I have to do is place the mask and drop the negative in the center square, it works perfect and it is really easy to center. Thanks Clay, I dont care what people say about you, you are allright in my book...

? About Hand Coated Prints

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