Ability of film to withstand image destruction?

[Jedidiah Smith]

I'm not sure what forum to ask this in, but I figure all the film experts are here, so...

OK, call me a conspiracy theorist, but I've got a funny question. Is there anything that can either electronically or electro-magnetically destroy an image captured on film? I mean film in a camera or say 35mm type in it's own casette, after it has been exposed. Is there anything short of x-raying the crap out of it that will dissolve or remove the image from the film before it's processed?
What about a processed film? Is it subject to any kind of "Ray" or non-physical destruction?

The reason I'm asking is this: I'm sure even in the not so distant future, nearly every image captured, will be in some electronic format; either in video or quasi-video form on an advanced mirrorless digital camera (perhaps like what RED has been touting as the "next Gen." for some time).

Here's where my imagination gets the better of me. What happens when a photo journalist is covering something of a political nature, or say "damning evidence" of some kind is uncovered...and folks in power don't want images of this stuff around?
The powers that be have already created things like a "pain ray" and various devices to single out someone in a crowd that they want to dispose of quietly. Now, what's to say they can't just as quietly erase all contents of a digital camera simply and effectively with some kind of "invisible" electro-magnetic force that people can't see or feel? And photogs would be left scratching their heads and thinking it was a "computer" error of some kind. How convenient!

My only thing with film being "safer" for images in this scenario is that x-Ray is harmful to humans, so I don't think they'd be able to pass people through one of those machines without some kind of warning.
So...just how stable do you all think those film images are?
To be honest, I'm not really that worried about it, just looking for some interesting discussion, and I know I can't be the first photographer to think about this!
Thanks,
Jed

 

[Photo Engineer]

Any EMP (Electro Magnetic Pulse) will destroy all normal digital (electronic) data. The associated radiation would fog undeveloped film as well. Processed film and paper prints are not destroyed by this. Gradual deterioration does take place from atmospheric effects on film and paper, gradually destroying the silver image or the support or both.

For all practical purposes, film is permanent for several lifetimes, and if one attempts to modify the image, those attempts would be very visible. The same is not true for digital images.

PE

 

[Nikola Dulgiarov]

From a distance - I don't know...
However high voltage will do the job. If the film cassette is metal, and the voltage is high enough, corona discharge will nicely fog the film, or at least render the image useless(so I think).

 

[MartinCrabtree]

Stop thinking about stuff like that. Unless you're writing a book it can't be good for you.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Any EMP (Electro Magnetic Pulse) will destroy all normal digital (electronic) data. The associated radiation would fog undeveloped film as well. Processed film and paper prints are not destroyed by this. Gradual deterioration does take place from atmospheric effects on film and paper, gradually destroying the silver image or the support or both.

For all practical purposes, film is permanent for several lifetimes, and if one attempts to modify the image, those attempts would be very visible. The same is not true for digital images.

PE

Yes, one small nuclear blast should do it.

Steve

 

[Photo Engineer]

Yes, one small nuclear blast should do it.

Steve

Or a strong magnetic field of any sort!

PE

 

[DLawson]

OK, call me a conspiracy theorist, but I've got a funny question. Is there anything that can either electronically or electro-magnetically destroy an image captured on film? I mean film in a camera or say 35mm type in it's own casette, after it has been exposed. Is there anything short of x-raying the crap out of it that will dissolve or remove the image from the film before it's processed?

Fire has always been effective for this.

Comedians love to work with the cloak-and-dagger depiction of ways to do this stuff. A crowbar to the kneecap followed by "gimme" is effective in getting incriminating film from just about anyone.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Yes, one small nuclear blast should do it.

Steve

Or a strong magnetic field of any sort!

PE

Yes, but if you really want to ruin someone's day, nothing beats a tactical nuclear weapon.

Steve

 

[MikeSeb]

Dude, you need to get out more.

 

[2F/2F]

In lawless situations, journalists get their cards stolen all the time, just as they had their film stolen before that. (There is no need for electronic devices if you have goons.) The difference is that roll film is easier to kiester than a CF card.

 

[Sirius Glass]

In lawless situations, journalists get their cards stolen all the time, just as they had their film stolen before that. (There is no need for electronic devices if you have goons.) The difference is that roll film is easier to kiester than a CF card.

ROTFLAMO!!!

 

[nworth]

Heat and chemical action are the things that will get to processed film. They can both be produced in various ways as incidental and secondary effects of other electromagnetic radiation. A microwave oven can destroy film if used vigorously. So can a laser. If the primary radiation causes some dangerous chemical to be released (e.g. it breaks a bottle of acetone nearby), the chemical can affect the film. Well processed film is quite resistant to almost all electromagnetic effects, but if things get violent enough it could suffer damage in various ways.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Heat and chemical action are the things that will get to processed film. They can both be produced in various ways as incidental and secondary effects of other electromagnetic radiation. A microwave oven can destroy film if used vigorously. So can a laser. If the primary radiation causes some dangerous chemical to be released (e.g. it breaks a bottle of acetone nearby), the chemical can affect the film. Well processed film is quite resistant to almost all electromagnetic effects, but if things get violent enough it could suffer damage in various ways.

Yes, but the same is true for digital storage. Time will destroy CDs and DVDs. A stored image on a hard drive that is not refreshed will become unreadable over time. Advances in systems or changes in storage format [jpeg to something else] will make the surviving data unreadable. The Moon survey photographs taken prior to the first Moon landing were almost lost. The time window for digital survivability is much shorter than for film. The last time I looked Mathew Brady's glass plates are still printable. I have film from before 1900 that is still printable. However I do not have digital image from the U S Civil War or before 1900 that any modern day equipment can read! [Insert "Snark, Snark, Snark" here!]

Steve

 

[2F/2F]

[Insert "Snark, Snark, Snark" here!]

You mean like the nuclear-tipped intercontinental cruise missile? As you mentioned previously, that would do it all right!

 

[frdrx]

Yes, but if you really want to ruin someone's day, nothing beats a tactical nuclear weapon.

Steve

Not true. Don't forget about strategic nuclear weapons. They're even better day-wreckers.

 

[nick mulder]

Is there anything that can either electronically or electro-magnetically destroy an image captured on film? I mean film in a camera or say 35mm type in it's own casette, after it has been exposed. Is there anything short of x-raying the crap out of it that will dissolve or remove the image from the film before it's processed?

Thanks,
Jed

Light

 

[Chris Nielsen]

Not true. Don't forget about strategic nuclear weapons. They're even better day-wreckers.

So it's true what they say then.. Mechanical engineers make weapons; Civil engineers make targets

 

[MartinP]

The most effective method worldwide for controlling witness reports has been tried and tested for centuries. It's called murder and has been used in every region of the world up to the present day.

There are more worthwhile subjects for this forum I'm sure.

 

[Jedidiah Smith]

Thanks for the discussion.
In reply to "...need to get out more!" - hehehe yeah, that's what I get for watching movies like "The Last Templar"

In reply to "more worthwhile subjects..." of course there are! Like shooting and making beautiful prints from all that film. But, I'm the kind of person who would like to know just how my method of choice (film capture) stands up to the elements, and any of man's new devices...just curious, that's all.

And, this was post was made all in fun, about hypothetical situation...but, I was kind of thinking this: if people want to "delete" a certain image from the record, with film capture, beside the x-ray possibility, they actually have to physically expose your film to light, or actually take it from you. I was speculating of a time in the future when, with digital, perhaps they could do it without your even knowing they did it...and then it would look like a computer / card failure or error.

Overall, it sounds like processed film, especially a B&W negative, is extremely robust. That's pretty good to my way of thinking.

Jed

 

[Sirius Glass]

People are more likely to steal your laptop than a shoe box full of negatives.

 

[wblynch]

Just tape an SD card to the back of your film camera and when you get stopped, pull the SD card out and hand it over...

 

[Jedidiah Smith]

Hahahaha! That is awesome. Man, if you could do that with a straight face, that would be one of the coolest stunts ever.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Just tape an SD card to the back of your film camera and when you get stopped, pull the SD card out and hand it over...

Do you think I could get away with that if I am shooting film?

 

[wblynch]

Do you think I could get away with that if I am shooting film?

point is the inquisitor will never think anyone still uses film...

Put some postcard pictures on the SD card first so they get some satisfaction

 

[Sirius Glass]

point is the inquisitor will never think anyone still uses film...

Put some postcard pictures on the SD card first so they get some satisfaction

But what if I am packing a 4x5? :confused: